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 Post subject: "Working" Lacy Dogs
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:51 pm 
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Well, I wasn't going to ask, but now I have to. I'm trying to learn more about the NLDA and what the NLDA truly stands for. I've been browsing around at this site and member sites, and I keep seeing the same thing repeated... Lacy's HAVE to work and can't be pets. There is some explanation on the NLDA site about what kinds of work lacys do... hog hunting/baying, cattle and livestock herding, blood trailing, running trap lines, treeing, agility, and retrieving are some named examples.

So, what exactly qualifies as "working" other than the examples given above? Why does the NLDA specify "for Hunters and Ranchers" if you also list jobs such as agility and retrieving? There is mention that a lacy needs a "real" job... what is a real job vs. a fake job?

Under "Temperament" it reads, "They are also naturally territorial and will protect their property from strangers. These dogs are very energetic and require lots of mental and physical exercise. Lacys need room to run as well as a challenging job to keep their minds occupied. Though they can make dedicated companions, this breed requires a strong leader and may not be appropriate for new dog owners or families with young children." I would say these statements are true to most working dog breeds (not just lacys) and most of those dog breeds are pets in homes across the world with no problem. What distinction is there in the lacy breed?

The reason I ask is because different websites seem to describe lacys in different ways. I'm wondering who decides and approves what to write on a public website as to what a lacys temperament is etc. A lot of what I'm reading on the forum as to why lacys HAVE to be worked have nothing to do with a SPECIFIC need to ranch/hunt. EVERY dog needs a job, not just lacys. ALL dogs are happier when they have a job. What makes the lacy breed so special that the NLDA discourages them as pets altogether?

What does it mean when the sit says "this breed is very pack oriented"?

Like I said, I'm just trying to learn what this association is all about. My husband has trained/handled Military Working Dogs (Army, Air Force, Navy, Marines), TSA dogs, private security dogs, and pet dogs for about 9 years total with multiple certifications and extensive training, so blame him... all years of talking about dogs makes me ask these kinds of questions! :)

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"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog."- Edward Hoagland


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 Post subject: Re: "Working" Lacy Dogs
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:00 pm 
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I'm a very vocal proponent Lacys as working dogs rather than pets, so much so that I put up a small site about it, and I've come to that position as someone who intended to get a pet when they acquired their Lacy. Unfortunately I'm trying to finish up something at work and know I'll go on for-ev-er if I get rolling, so I'll have to come back to answer all your questions.

You can check out my slightly out of date site if you want to read a summary of our story: http://www.truebluelacys.com/about.html. This is my position based on my personal experience, not necessarily that of the NLDA, but basically... These dogs were created to be working ranch and hunting dogs. Until about three decades ago, almost every single one of them was doing that, they were never bred to be pets. Some of them will do OK in that situation. Many of them will not. Personally, I've paid the price of trying to have a working dog as a pet with my blood, sweat and tears. Literally. I have scars, I have friends with scars, I've paid vet bills for other dogs, I've spent thousands on training, I've spent hours upon hours crying. But I refuse to put Sadie down or place her in a situation where that will be the end result, so I've tried more things than most. The only thing that ever had a significant impact was working. And not just a lot of exercise, which we tried, or a dog sport like agility, which we did as well. She didn't just need to be physically and mentally occupied. She had some visceral need to hunt or herd or bay, to be in her element, that is hard to explain.

Yes, I do think Sadie is an extreme case, but she is certainly not the only Lacy to develop behavior issues because they didn't have a suitable outlet. Just look at the Lacys that get rehomed, not to mention the ones who get put down, which usually aren't made public. It is something that is very close to my heart, as I know health issues will be for you, because I don't think any person or dog should have to go through what Sadie and I have.

Beyond that, I believe in the greater goal of preserving this breed as the Lacy family intended it to be: http://www.nationallacydog.org/lacyvideos.html. And that is where the NLDA comes in to all of this. I only represent one view. There are many different reasons why Lacys should be preserved and promoted as a worked breed. But no matter what the motivation, I think it is an admirable goal I'm glad to support.

I'm so gonna get sucked in to just answering all your questions, so back to work, but I'll stop in later and hope others can chime to offer different perspectives.

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"You must be a very small minority no matter who you hang around with. Maybe you should start a magazine, Vegetarian Hog Dogging Monthly, find some like-minded individuals."
- Inspiration for my next project from TBH

True Blue Lacys: http://www.truebluelacys.com
More Lacy Pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/julieanna/sets/72157605027566732/


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 Post subject: Re: "Working" Lacy Dogs
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 2:32 pm 
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To Doug, thank you for your service for our country, If I ever meet you in person I will personally shake you hand and thank you for your service, now with this said I have a question. were you a dog handler or a Master Trainer? being in the miltary you know the differance. as far as the ?????? your wife asked i might be able to shed some answers on why, the NLDA does not promote Lacys as being sold as pets. Doug as a military handler, and handling Belgian Malinois do you believe that those dogs that made the cut , was not culled out with in the few weeks of the first evalulation they went thru. the ones that made it into full training.WOULD THEY MAKE A GOOD PET FOR THE FIRST TIME DOG OWNER ? AS a very well know breeder AND a very well know Trainer of working dogs. I personally do not want to see these Malinois in pet homes and do not promote them as good pets, and plainly state that I do not breed pets. WHAT the NLDA is trying to do I.M.P.O is not promote these Lacys as pets but as WORKING DOGS, if we let our working Dogs be promoted as pets then the breed as a whole will become a dogs setting in air condition on the couch, and run away from a hog or a cow ,if they came upon one. because with out testing working abilty from Sire and Dam before breeding you will only produce a dog that cannot do it's job after years of breeding pets.i PERSONALLY BELIEVE that pet quality would not even make a good blood trailing dog because they still have to have the drive to stay on the trail. I think by requiring the dog to be tested before it becomes "breeder quality" is a way to have the working ability within our Lacy 20-30 years from now. not just blue dogs running thru some pattern in agility.There are so many hog hunter's out there right now that thinks the Lacy's arn't worth a crap hunting hogs. where do you think that came from, it came from breeding blue dogs just for the god all mighty dollar, not from testing your sire and dam to see if they could get out ther and work before breeding and having some of those "texas State Dogs" to make a buck from Grandmadawg


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 Post subject: Re: "Working" Lacy Dogs
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:15 pm 
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Doug will want to answer this, so I'll let him know there is a post, but here is some initial info to get you started...

Doug was both a handler and a Master Trainer as well as a Team Lead. Doug was a K-9 handler for 2 years. He was then selected to train K-9s for all 4 branches (Army, Air Force, Navy, and Marines). He trained dual purpose K-9s with zero to little experience for narcotics or explosives detection and patrol. He did this for 5 years combined both active duty and as a civilian. Then he spent a year training TSA dogs (the ones in the airports) which including evaluation and training missions in the field. His passion lies in pet training though, so he is constantly reading books to be sure and keep up with the latest and greatest training techniques. He did some training for Petsmart part time just for fun, and he has always offered help to anyone he runs into with a dog that might need some help.

As far as Belgian Malinois as pets for first time dog owners... The military has their own breeding program, and anyone within a reasonable proximity to Lackland Air Force Base can apply to foster one. They will come out to your home and see that you have reasonable accommodations for the dog and interview you to make sure you are a good fit, but they aren't going to turn you down because you've never owned a dog. I'm sure it's a consideration, but I know for a fact they've fostered Belgian Malinois to folks who have never had a dog before. Sure, it's only a foster, but they have the dog during the most difficult phases... when they are puppies with no sense of right and wrong and loads of energy to tear things up and chew all over things!

The military also uses German Shepherds as working dogs, and German Shepherds are thought of by most as GREAT pets. Just FYI, Doug and I have 3 dogs, 2 of them are lacys and all 3 are air conditioned spoiled dogs. All 3 of our dogs don't shy away from cows and Austin won a hog baying competition with no experience against a group of proven working dogs.

Additionally, it is COMMON for police dogs to come home at night to families with kids etc. These dogs are trained to bite and hold, but adapt well to the family, air conditioned pet life style as well.

As far as drive goes, and Doug will probably write you a novel on this one, a dog’s drive is highly derived from their genetics. You can encourage a train the drive they already have to ensure they meet their potential, but at the end of the day, if they don’t have a lot of drive, you’re not going to be able to teach it into them. You can improve the drive they already have, but you can’t give them more drive than what they were born with.

It’s a pretty common thought that Belgian Malinois and German Shepherds are GREAT police dogs. Doug worked in an environment where they put out hundreds of dogs each year and trained 5 dogs at a time for only a few months from knowing nothing to being ready to go out to the field. Even still, with the VERY selective process of the military, there are dogs that are eliminated, and if you only saw those dogs, you might think that Belgian Malinois and German Shepherds aren’t great police dogs, when that isn’t the case overall. The whole breed doesn't make a bad pet, but there are definitely specific dogs within breeds that aren't ideal as pets.

My point in asking the questions I asked is because I don’t think lacys are being promoted to meet their full potential. The problems that lacys have as pets are no different than any other breed. Working a dog has a much more diverse definition than the ones stated here. I think every dog should have jobs, regardless of the breed. If lacy stock is left only for ranching/hunting type tasks, you are not fully developing the breed. You can still reserve proven stock for breeding for ranching/hunting if you think that’s necessary. When you say, “blue dogs running thru some pattern in agility” you are HIGHLY underestimating what is involved in agility. Lacys are underutilized in intelligence development in my opinion. Proven dogs by the association definition means a dog that by INSTINCT will bay a hog, work cows, etc. Hence why Austin was able to take 2nd place with no experience. Lacys lack the mental training overall. It’s a completely different skill set for a dog to be able to have strong obedience or successfully perform in agility etc. We have no idea what lacys are truly capable of if we limit what they are exposed to. It’s about the equivalent of a parent telling a child they have a long history of successful and talented musicians in both sides of the family, so don’t let them try anything else but music.

Just some final food for thought… I keep hearing that we need to keep lacys doing what they were originally bred to do. If Belgian Malinois and German Shepherd breeders held their breed to the same standard, we wouldn’t have these wonderful canines defending our nation today. They were never bred originally for police work. FORTUNATELY they were never restricted from utilizing their multitude of talents which ended up making them some of the best police dogs there are! Lacys have great noses, imagine what an impact they could make as a search and rescue dog saving lives! I know there are already some out there training for search and rescue and I commend that!

I’ll let Doug know he should respond.

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 Post subject: Re: "Working" Lacy Dogs
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:30 pm 
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Sorry one more quick thing, I just want to be clear... I absolutely have the utmost respect for people who work their lacys. I think it's WONDERFUL they are still used for their original purpose. I just don't want anyone to think I'm against working lacys either. I also respect it if NLDA wants to make their association specific to working dogs only. Obviously this isn't the association for us, because we don't fit that requirement. I just don't think that those of us who have lacys as pets or doing other jobs for dogs should be treated as if we are ruining the breed and shouldn't own lacys. If NLDA wants to promote working dogs only, that is great! I'm not at all against it. I just don't think there is anything wrong with other associations and breeders doing otherwise (responsibly of course).

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"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog."- Edward Hoagland


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 Post subject: Re: "Working" Lacy Dogs
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:35 pm 
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I am by no means the most experienced person in the dog world. I had dogs as pets growing up and started hunting with my first Red Bone coon hounds as a child after having seen the movie "Where the Red Fern Grows" (just had to have them after that). While in College I had a very good Catahoula that I used as a squirrel dog for 14 years (she was fun and very smart). Since then I have had Black Mouth Curs, to locate and herd cattle while working on various ranches across North Texas until about 2001. I worked as a professional Huntsman for many years (traditional fox hunting like in Europe) and had no less than 150 hounds at a time, some where American fox hounds, English fox hounds and Pennmarydales. I trained them all myself, hunted them and took great care to assure they were healthy, fit, experienced and treated them as individuals and as pack dogs, so as to assure I would have the best pack in the U.S.A.
I now have a great appreciation for the Lacy dog, it's determination, energy, intelligence and grit, they are my canine passion now. There is no comparison for the description of a Lacy as a breed except to say that if you measure the difference in the energy of a mature Basset hound to a Border Collie and then you can go on from the Collie to a more extreme level of energy and determination in a Lacy dog, you will have an idea of their energy and determination level. I have a few of my many Lacy dogs that scale 6 foot horse panels (they climb out like a human might do using their legs to climb), I know there are many Lacy owners that can attest to the same thing. They will do any thing plossible to find a way out of their kennel or yard only to do the job they have been given by their master and are happy to do it for a pat on the head. If you need a ditch dug and could train your Lacy to dig a line of your choosing they could probably keep up with the best of bach hoes (awsome diggers). The best way to tell if your Lacy gyp is getting within 10 days of whelping is that she will start digging above and beyond her normal excessive digging, so that she can make a den for whelping pups. The only breed that I believe can come close is the Belgian Malinois, which your husband may have experience with or at least a knowledge of, one of the many differences between the Lacy and the Malinois (totally different breed), is the Lacy dogs advantage of there small size gives them an advantage over the Malinois and many other herding breeds by being more agile and having a longer life span and a little more of a people freindly dog geneticly.
I believe the differences you find about Lacy dogs on various websites, even our own, is that there are many Lacy owners with varying experiences and personalities who own Lacys of varying jobs and varying dog personalities. Lacy are not all exact carbon copies in personalities as many Lacy owners will attest, the job they are given makes some different in their personalities as they mature. You will find many descriptions for a single breed in any breed depending on who you talk to and what bloodlines their dog came from and what their own dogs' job is even in dogs as common as Labradors, Border collies, Poodles and many others, working breeds or not.
Originally the Lacy bred was developed to hunt ferrel hogs, contain them by baying them and herd them to market if needed. Ferrel hogs are very aggressive to an extreme, they have no known predator prooving how mean they can be and difficult they can be to hunt catch and control, which requires a very intelligent, determined, athletic, gritty dog to do this sort of work. Later Lacys were used to herd cattle and the progression to other jobs grew over the years. All that to say, this is why you will find that there are many "jobs" for Lacys, but the origin was hunting/baying/herding. All canines are inherintly pack oriented, because historicly they all come from wild dogs of various types . The pack orientation of the Lacy dog has not been bred out of them as in many other breeds that is why you see that description of them. I use my own Lacy dogs for ferrel hog hunting and they never cease to amaze me in their team work. By this "team work" they have learned to use other pack mates to help one another to lacate hogs, bay them and at the right moment they will actually catch a wild hog in the same manner every time, because of their pack orientation, for example I have three Lacy dogs that I like to hunt together, because of their spectacular team work after having located and bayed a hog, one particular dog will allways catch first and on the right side of the hog, the next dog will always catch one the left side of the hog and the gyp that hunts with them will allways catch on the snout. They hold the hog until I arrive on the scene to either tie the hog for live removal or dispatch him. All this to say, I can attest to their team work as an intelligent "pack dog".
I hope this helps you in your quest for Lacy dog knowledge. There are lots of folks on here with lots of experience with he Lacy dogs. Listen to them, learn from others mistakes and their succes stories.You will find lots of information in the Lacy dog forum and I believe you will most likely develop a great fondness for the Lacy dog even if you don't ever own one.

Bobby


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 Post subject: Re: "Working" Lacy Dogs
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:46 pm 
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"As far as drive goes, and Doug will probably write you a novel on this one, a dog’s drive is highly derived from their genetics. You can encourage a train the drive they already have to ensure they meet their potential, but at the end of the day, if they don’t have a lot of drive, you’re not going to be able to teach it into them. You can improve the drive they already have, but you can’t give them more drive than what they were born with."

I think this quote is basically what they are talking about. You can't put drive in a puppy that doesnt have any. Which is why preserving it's working heritage is that much more important. If you breed a low level dog you'll eventually only get low level dogs. I work with many municipalities around the Dallas/Ft. Worth areas and have worked dogs down at the DoD at Lackland and right now the Mal is going thru those working dog changes. So many more folks are breeding mal than just 9 or 10 years ago and now you are starting to see the breed get watered down. The GSD is just now bouncing back from that watering down. Anyways, good conversation and lots of good outlooks and opinions :-BD

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 Post subject: Re: "Working" Lacy Dogs
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:47 pm 
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I guess I missed this till now but well said to everyone ! I breed my dogs to work I do not breed many and have spent more time working and proving my dogs in the bay pen than breeding them . Grandmadawg is right in the hog world the lacy name comes with very little respect . I have been working Patch , Sammy ,Bella in the bay pens for almost 2 years now Lacy gets no respect there . Its Cats , BMC , because they work and work hard . The lacy was once one of best hog dogs there was so what happened to them ! So that is what breeding working dogs is about . Dogs that can bay a hog that is tearing up a ranchers property or herd some intense bulls, Blood trail wounded game . In Dougs case dogs that have people whos lives depend on them not being a house pet but a warrior at the top of his game !!! Just as in humans not everyone is Special forces & Elite forces quality it is a special breed of human . Being invovled in the military Doug and Kathy you know that better than anyone or ones never in the military . Doug let me say thanks for serving our country and God Bless you for it !! I want my Lacys to got to homes where I get a call from a buyer and they say that there lacy saved my life when that hog made a run at me or my lacy bayed and help catch 100 hogs this year he is earning his keep . A rancher thats says his lacy saved him or his child from a bull that was out of controll or he help push 200 head of cattle . A commercial hunting ranch that said his lacy recovered 100 wounded animals this year and his customers were so happy they got there throphy recovered !! I do not really care to hear that my lacy can hold a bone on her nose for 4 minutes then flip it up and catch it , great trick not the life I want for my dogs or dogs I sell . As far as the agility thing great extercise but not enough to satisfy the prey drive in some of these dogs. So that is what I think the NLDA is about !!!!!!! This is why my dogs are registered here and the reason I am a proud member ! Anyone please feel free to correct me if I am wrong or speaking out of turn here !!! Bobby very well said !!

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Last edited by CAMO on Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:00 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: "Working" Lacy Dogs
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:55 pm 
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Bobby, VERY WELL PUT
Grandmadawg


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 Post subject: Re: "Working" Lacy Dogs
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:57 pm 
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In addition, I agree with grandmadawg. I know most Lacy dog owners and breeders have no interest in breeding excess for puppies just to "prove" the Lacy dog breed by having them prove they can scale a ladder, swim a creek, run through a tube, catch a frisbee, run up a ramp, be someone's pet by licking the babies face or any number of other tricks. Mine do these things and more every time they hunt by scaling creek walls, jumping riveans, dodging boar cutters, etc....I believe the Lacy as a breed can do just about every thing there is to do as a dog, but I personally don't believe that the Lacy dog needs to prove anything that they haven't already been proving since 1858 for the Lacy brothers and the great State of Texas. As you can tell, I like'm a lot and prefer they continue to be used as they were ORIGINALLY INTENDED, so as not to change the breed overall.

Bobby


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 Post subject: Re: "Working" Lacy Dogs
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:09 pm 
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Let me put a differnt spin on this. Would you give the keys to a new corvette to a 16 year old? I have NO problem with people like you and Chris having a lacy. Knowledge is power, in the pass few weeks I have seen more lacys put down do to aggresion issues ect. Some of the blame falls on the breeders, some falls on the owner. I dont care if it is working cows, hogs, SARS or whatever. My dogs may "work" six months of the year, I am lucky and do many outdoor activies that keep them busy the rest of the year. The most any of us can do is educate owners of what they are getting into.

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 Post subject: Re: "Working" Lacy Dogs
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:24 pm 
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Lacys and curs were bred to be all around ranch dogs and their job was to hunt down and bay game and livestock. They make great hog dogs, cow dogs, and trackers and most will make a functional tree dog. They also make great companion dogs if their working drive is satiated.

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 Post subject: Re: "Working" Lacy Dogs
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 6:55 pm 
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This is Doug…

Grandmadawg – I was at Lackland for my original “handler’s course” in 2002 and returned to Lackland to be a Military Working Dog (MWD) Trainer in 2004. I was in the first group of people ever to have the title of Master MWD Trainer bestowed upon them in 2008. I stayed there training green dogs as a soldier and a civilian for DAF and for DHS/TSA as a Trainer/Evaluator until 2010 when I needed to move back to VA for family reasons. I guess you could say that I’ve worked and trained a few Mal’s, Sheps, Dutchies, Labs, & Vizslas, there was even a Carin Terrier once!

I’m curious about you and Paul as it sounds as though we all have similar backgrounds and should be chatting more often! :O3

Kathy has obviously spent too much time around me and did a fantastic job answering the questions you had for me the way that I would have. I will add a few additional things though…

The biggest lesson I learned from training hundreds of dogs of several different breeds, from zero to fully functional Police/Military Working Dogs is that each and every dog is an individual. Therefore I really dislike breed generalizations. Saying that all Lacy dogs are unsuitable as pets is as uninformed a statement as saying that all Rottweilers are vicious. As a matter of fact my pack proves both of those statements wrong at once!

Kathy already mentioned the breeding program and how the potential military dogs are intentionally placed into homes and on many occasions into the homes of “novices” to be raised from 6 weeks to 9 months. Furthermore, the military is the only agency (to my knowledge) that doesn’t have the dogs go home with their handler every night and become incorporated into that handler’s family. German and Belgian Shepherds are very capable of being diehard workers by day and loving house pets by night. There are exceptions to every rule as I stated before, but most trainers agree that this type of “well rounded” or “balanced” dog is what is considered ideal. I also know of many “working quality” German Shepherds and Belgian Malinois that are perfectly happy as house pets as long as they are given outlets for their working drive such as agility work, SAR work, scent work, competition obedience, etc.

The reason that these dogs are capable of being “well rounded” and the reason that almost all law enforcement agencies, from all over the world, go to Europe to consign their dogs is because of the rigorous breeding standards in Europe. The breed associations in Europe not only require challenging SCH certifications to breed but they also require temperament tests and… (gasp!)... Hip tests! European breed standards would certainly cause a stroke for any NLDA member with all of their controls over the “personal freedoms” of their breeders. Yet, this is what makes their dogs sought after… globally!

The direction I am afraid the Lacy breeders are following is breeding mainly for drive, without much balance. How many breeders out there are doing temperament tests and obedience certifications before breeding? I’ve given up hope in getting all breeders to do some simple x-rays before breeding without even bringing up things like that!

I think the point Kathy was trying to make with her original question is that almost ALL dogs were originally bred for working purposes. That being the case, why is this discussed with such vehemence on this association’s website? The same statements are true with every dog breed. With a few exceptions of dog breeds that were bred specifically to be lap dogs for royalty.

Dachshunds, for example, were originally bred to hunt badgers and now are primarily pet dogs, which have many difficulties in pet life due to their drives to dig and burrow. Does this mean that Dachshund breed associations should not sell their dogs to non-badger hunting homes? Dogs of every breed have these types of challenges.

I have no problem with breed associations or individual breeders stating that they only want to breed/produce working quality dogs, but we all know that this is not possible 100% of the time. Even the best working Lacy dogs in the world when bred together might produce a few “pet quality” Lacy dogs. I disagree with the saying, “If it ain’t worth breeding, it ain’t worth feeding”. These pet quality Lacy dogs could be sold with spay/neuter contracts and would be fantastic pets and could even serve many purposes that are much greater than hunting hogs, e.g. assistance dog, SAR dog. Unfortunately this association’s statements seem to have an attitude of “looking down their noses” at any type of application of a Lacy dog that is not hunting/ranch related.

Kathy sums it up best in this statement - ”If Belgian Malinois and German shepherd breeders held their breed to the same standard, we wouldn’t have these wonderful canines defending our nation today. They were never bred originally for police work. FORTUNATELY they were never restricted from utilizing their multitude of talents which ended up making them some of the best police dogs there are! Lacys have great noses, imagine what an impact they could make as a search and rescue dog saving lives!”

If only this breed association was as concerned with the genetic health of the breed as it is about the genetic working capabilities, there would be no question as to whether or not all breed stock should be required to be hip-tested.

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"In order to really enjoy a dog, one doesn't merely try to train him to be semihuman. The point of it is to open oneself to the possibility of becoming partly a dog."- Edward Hoagland


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 Post subject: Re: "Working" Lacy Dogs
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:51 pm 
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Posts: 128
Location: South Texas
Doug, thank you for your reply, I asked the ? if you were a dog handler or a master Trainer. because I would know what your experience was just from that answer. I will tell you and make it public. I know quite bit about about the military puppy program, I know about the process the puppy go thru, I know about the culling process all of the dogs go thru. THERE ONLY A SELECT FEW ON THE N.L.D.A that know some of my personal background of expertise. also when Lackland was just starting their puppy program, they came to me[I did not got to them] and wanted to use my stud dog to collect seman to use in their program.I will say this this dog is know world wide for his working ability and for producing countless police dogs, world champion working dog in Holland and Belgian I will also make public that I have almost 50 years of working dog experience. I choose to use my handle instead of my name because i don't want some of the people wanting Lacy and would be willing to steal them to know where my kennel is.I am not talking about the people from the assoc, but people talk and I just want to keep a low profile. i WILL ALSO SAY i HAVE YEARS OF EXPERIENCE IN ALL Fields OF narcotic, bomb, bite workand SAR TRAINING.
what I wanted to point out was,As a breeder and a trainer I know that in a litter of 8 pups from the best sire and dam you will be lucky to get one super star and a couple of great dog and the rest will not be up to the test of a duel purpose K.9 in the field i chose to spend my life doing I could only have the best of the best other wise someone would die because of a sub standard dog. SO I am very proud to promote the working Lacy as a whole as being a truly tested working dog. because as you know now that so many people are breeding sub-standard malinois, why for the god all mighty dollar. 15 YEARS AGO MOST PEOPLE DID NOT EVEN KNOW WHAT A MALINOIS WAS. I personally don't care if people have a Lacy as a pet, but I want to have my great grand kids if they want a working Lacy to be able to find one, you also know that the German Shepherd was so over breed here in the USA that a high percentage could not protect their family nor do any of the things that they were originally bred for. the only way to get a good shepherd was to import one in . I just don't want this to happen to the Lacys
Grandmadawg


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 Post subject: Re: "Working" Lacy Dogs
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:48 pm
Posts: 215
Location: Hamilton, AL
I've heard it mentioned before I became a lacy owner that they had to be proven before they could be registered to breed or something like that. Could someone that's been around longer expand on this?


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