Register    Login    Forum    Search    FAQ

Board index » Lacys In Action » Training




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: clicker training
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 1:48 pm 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:46 pm
Posts: 4640
I have been reading the website that Jim suggested for clicker training and have a question. I havent started on training Abe yet. I got the clicker and some liver treats, but my stinking little dog turned up his nose at them. Yesterday, I got some chicken hearts and am going to slice them and dehydrate them and start the training with them. He loves that!!

So, my question is: Since Abe already knows sit, stay, come and that kind of stuff, where do I start with the clicker. Back at sit? Should I just start like he doesnt know this stuff? I'm sure I will have more questions, but all help will be appreciated.

Betty

_________________
Betty

"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did
better."
Maya Angelou

"You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something in your life!"
Winston Churchill

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bjleek/


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: clicker training
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:37 pm 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:02 pm
Posts: 385
The big thing you want to do first is to create the relationship between the click and the treat. So pick something like him looking you in the eye, and when he does, click, and then treat within a couple of seconds. Keep doing that, and, once he is definitely looking at you to get a treat (meaning he understands what he id doing to get the reward), start increasing the duration of how long he looks before you reward him. Be sure to click the milli-second that he makes eye contact! It's okay to take a second or 2 to provide the treat, but the timing of the click is everything.

_________________
Jim Browning
and Cannon


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: clicker training
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:59 pm 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:46 pm
Posts: 4640
Thanks, Jim. I will dry the hearts tomorrow and plan on starting training on Sun.

Years back, I had a job as a data entry clerk. It took a good while before I could do the work and chew gum at the same time. I hope that I will be able to get the 'click and treat' all done the right way at the right time. I guess that we will see. :D

Betty

_________________
Betty

"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did
better."
Maya Angelou

"You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something in your life!"
Winston Churchill

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bjleek/


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: clicker training
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:59 pm
Posts: 62
Location: Fairfax, VA
You need to "load" the clicker like Jim stated above. How consistent is Abe with those basic commands? Once you "load" the clicker you can reinforce the commands he already knows with the clicker. "Abe SIT, click, reward. The clicker is a great training tool because the marker(the click) is consistent. The click always sounds the same. Plus you can shape Abe into learning new commands, tricks, etc. You will know when Abe understands the "click" noise because he will give you a change of behavior. For example, lets say Abe is walking through the house and you have the clicker on you, you say nothing to him and just click, Abe will show you a change of behavior once he understands what that click means. Most likely he will come running to you but will definitely change his focus on you immediately with some eye contact.

Oh and as Jim stated once Abe understands the click increase the duration. Once Abe understands that when he hears a "click" a reward is given you eventually won't have to worry about rewarding him directly after the click. Over time you can withold the reward after the "click" and Abe won't lose his focus on you because he knows he will eventually get his reward. This can also lead into having him do multiple tasks at one time and not getting a reward until the end. For example, Abe-SIT, DOWN, SIT, reward!


Chris

_________________
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dogsnlife/


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: clicker training
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:27 pm 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:27 am
Posts: 2456
Location: SoCal
Yup, agreed on all counts. Loading a clicker is a pretty fast process for a Lacy. They are so smart, I think Sadie got it by the second click :)) But it is really useful practice for the person doing the training too. I know it sounds so simple, but the more you do it the faster and more accurate you'll be.

And definitely start with things Abe already knows. That way you get to treat him a ton and that makes training great in his eyes. I still run Sadie through her paces for treats.

_________________
"You must be a very small minority no matter who you hang around with. Maybe you should start a magazine, Vegetarian Hog Dogging Monthly, find some like-minded individuals."
- Inspiration for my next project from TBH

True Blue Lacys: http://www.truebluelacys.com
More Lacy Pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/julieanna/sets/72157605027566732/


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: clicker training
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:48 pm
Posts: 215
Location: Hamilton, AL
Will the clicker get them off the treats? Mine are a 100% reliable when I have treats, but if I don't they loose focus fast. :)) They will do as many tricks as I want as long as they know a treat is coming, they would sit and stay for an hour waiting. Let me say sit and stay without a treat and they will get as soon as you turn to walk away :ymdevil: Mine are treat trained.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: clicker training
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 5:22 pm 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:02 pm
Posts: 385
Once a behavior is fully conditioned, you "fade the clicker", ending up with a reliable response to your cue/command, regardless of whether you have a treat or not. My experience with Cannon matches what I've read, in that pretty much any issues have insufficient training as their root cause. The sequence goes like this:

A. The dog offers the behavior (lets say he sits) and is rewarded.
B. The dog continues to be rewarded for offering the behavior (sitting) without being prompted.
C. The dog starts offering the behavior reliably (sits all the time)
D. A cue is added ("Sit"), given just as the dog offers the behavior. Clicks and treats continue
E. When the dog always sits when you say "Sit", you stop rewarding the sit when you haven't asked for it, and only reward a sit when you ask for it. Be aware that this will piss your dog off royally. Expect huge Lacy back-talk!
F. Once the dog always sits an cue, but doesn't sit unless asked, you start fading the click/treat.

A behavior isn't considered fully trained until:

1. It always occurs immediately when cued.
2. It never occurs without the cue.
3. It never occurs in response to a different cue (no sit when told down)
4. the dog never offers something else instead. (doesn't lie down when asked to sit)

Miss any of the training steps, and you don't reach that total goal. Any command I've trained the old way or with shortcuts isn't reliable, and some of the cues are "poisoned" beyond repair. I'm going back and re-training, using new cues.

_________________
Jim Browning
and Cannon


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: clicker training
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 7:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:48 pm
Posts: 215
Location: Hamilton, AL
I think I may give this a try, We trained them when they were small with treats. I need to teach them stay and down with hand signals anyway, so I don't have to speak while approaching a wounded deer.
Jim mine started offering their whole reputah after Michelle started making them do several commands in a row. Always ending with sit and stay waiting, looking for a treat. They just evolved their act. I'm not serious about most of the stuff they will do, only the commands I use while tracking. Could using the clicker single out these commands with hand signals?


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: clicker training
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:39 pm 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:02 pm
Posts: 385
Hand signals are really hard to avoid for me. You have to be really careful if you -don't- want any physical action to be part of the cue. In agility, at least with the instructor I have, she wants everything totally verbal, so that no accidental movement will send the dog off the wrong way. Turns out everything I had taught Cannon had a movement component to the cue. I'd say down and move my hand to the floor. I'd say 'ding' to release him from a stay, and I'd move my hand toward me. When I stopped doing the movements, I learned how much he relied on them.

It's really easy, once a dog has a behavior down, to add additional cues that mean the same things, and it isn't confusing to them. You just start doing the new signal during the behavior, and pretty soon they realize "oh, that hand movement means the same thing as the 'down' sound".

_________________
Jim Browning
and Cannon


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: clicker training
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:30 pm 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:46 pm
Posts: 4640
I had forgotten how long it takes to slice up a package of chicken hearts and I have 4 to slice! So, starting on clicker training will wait a couple of days. I guess that I could use another treat until I get the hearts all sliced and dried, but I have the job started, need to finish it. I am looking forward to starting it. Mostly, I am looking forward to see how I do with it, I know how Abe will do!!

Betty

_________________
Betty

"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did
better."
Maya Angelou

"You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something in your life!"
Winston Churchill

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bjleek/


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: clicker training
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:55 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Apr 22, 2009 3:01 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Magnolia Texas
I think one of the best things about C/T is it's FUN for the dog AND handler!


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: clicker training
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2009 8:31 pm 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:46 pm
Posts: 4640
I'll let you know if I think its fun! LOL!! Right now, I'm thinking click, treat, dont use hand signals, make sure the dog is looking at you, sounds a bit much for me!!

One more package of chicken hearts to go! :D

Betty

_________________
Betty

"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did
better."
Maya Angelou

"You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something in your life!"
Winston Churchill

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bjleek/


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: clicker training
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:44 pm 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:46 pm
Posts: 4640
Yummmm, dogs love dried chicken hearts!! Time to start training!!

Betty

_________________
Betty

"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did
better."
Maya Angelou

"You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something in your life!"
Winston Churchill

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bjleek/


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

Board index » Lacys In Action » Training


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron