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 Post subject: Bay Pen Traning
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2009 11:41 am 
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I am wanting to work my dogs in a bay pen. I am woundering if there is anyone who can help with this ? Is there anyone who has this type of set up and is willing to help.Please let me know if anyone knows someone who can helps with this. Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Bay Pen Traning
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:23 am 
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We have one, but we're about 4 hours from Hutto.

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 Post subject: Re: Bay Pen Traning
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:19 am 
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What exactly do you want to work them in the pen for? As a foundation for woods dogs or to get into bay competitions? Several of us go to the monthly baying in Bremond. The October event got pushed back to Oct. 31 due to the rain. I'd recommend anyone interested in competing attend one of his events to see what a safe and professional baying is like. If it looks like something you're interested in, the owner Gilbert Thompson may be able to arrange training sessions. Doug Mason in Columbus also does training sessions for the public in a large woods pen. His email is masonda@aol.com.

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 Post subject: Re: Bay Pen Traning
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:36 pm 
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For bay pen . I went to bremond last month and was going to go this past weekend but as you said it got pushed back. I mostly blood trail with my dogs but want to give them the chance to do something else . I met a few people last month there and it seems a lot of them have a place to pratice with there dogs I just want my dogs to have a chance to do well . I did get to meet Gilbert he was very helpfull . I will give him a call . I do plan on going on the 31st. Thanks julie for the info.

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 Post subject: Re: Bay Pen Traning
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 8:41 pm 
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Amber I have land in Mexia that I spend a lot of time at. I think its a about 1hr 45 min from where you are . I would if you guys ever have time like to come check it out . Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Bay Pen Training
 Post Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:25 pm 
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I have been thinking of doing this with blue. Not so much because I'm interested in him hunting hogs but because he is likely to run into hogs at anytime and it seems a bay pen would be a good place to let him learn how to handle himself so he wouldn't be so likely to get hurt in the wild.

Is this a good philosophy and at what age should I do it?


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Pen Traning
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:13 am 
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The main reason I recommend Gilbert and Doug is because they have the proper setup for training green dogs. You need the right hogs, the right facilities and the right handlers for it to be safe. I hear a lot of people treat bay pens like a toy, just throwing any combination of dogs and hogs together, not realizing that can be very dangerous for the dogs and cruel to the hogs. I've seen a dog get their jugular ripped open in a pen and last year a guy was charged with animal cruelty for putting multiple dogs on a poor hog. After that case, people with a private pen on their property have gotten pretty hesitant about opening them up.

As for Blue, I'm a little torn. Part of me says yes, knowing how to deal with a hog certainly can't hurt. That's essentially what Mike and Mis did with Lucy, and I think all of us feel better knowing she'll protect Betty if they come across a pig on their walks. On the other hand, the safest thing for a lone dog to do when faced with a hog is not antagonize it and let it run the other way. Teaching Blue to be combative could lead to him being overly confident and tangling with a boar you'd rather he leave alone. So I'd be interested to hear other opinions.

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 Post subject: Re: Bay Pen Traning
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:04 am 
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I can tell you right off that the dog's personality will change once they experience the bay pen. They learn that they can get away with being aggressive in the proper venue and when at home, they decide they do not want to take any crap from other dogs and they will react faster and more on the point. Happened to me before..they decide to stop being puppies and do not allow other dogs to walk over them anymore. Has that happened to other people's dogs?


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Pen Traning
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:16 am 
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Julie N wrote:
The main reason I recommend Gilbert and Doug is because they have the proper setup for training green dogs. You need the right hogs, the right facilities and the right handlers for it to be safe.


Julie's right. If your dogs have never been in a pen with a hog, ours might not be the best place to start them. Ours is really more of a training pen, not a bay pen. It's got lots of trees and brush. We've got a couple of hogs in it right now, but they're rough and pretty big. One of them had DJ up a tree on Sunday. :))

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 Post subject: Re: Bay Pen Traning
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:15 am 
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Haha wish i could have seen that


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Pen Traning
 Post Posted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:23 pm 
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So Brian when are you going to bring Glory down so we can go climb some trees.

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 Post subject: Re: Bay Pen Traning
 Post Posted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:55 pm 
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:)) DJ up a tree :)) too funny BUT been there..

Quote:
I can tell you right off that the dog's personality will change once they experience the bay pen. They learn that they can get away with being aggressive in the proper venue and when at home, they decide they do not want to take any crap from other dogs and they will react faster and more on the point. Happened to me before..they decide to stop being puppies and do not allow other dogs to walk over them anymore. Has that happened to other people's dogs?



I have to disagree with that statement..Secret & Heidi are the example I will use. We trained them in the bay pen every day starting at 8 wks old and they knew the difference between working pigs and being puppies in the yard. The only change I saw is they were quieter at night..tired puppies = sleeping all night :ymdaydream: Same with Ellie & Trapper, Ox & Jag ect..we have not ever had a Lacy Dog that displayed the kind of behavior or personality change like that your talking about from training in a bay pen. They have gained gradual confidence in the pen but out of it...they are who they were prior to ever seeing a hog..personality wise.

The bay pen is a great tool for starting woods dogs in BUT it has to be done correctly.
When we worked Lucy for Mrs. Betty it was to teach Lucy respect for the pig so that in the event on a walk they crossed paths with a pig..Lucy would know what to do as well as what not to do. You don't achieve that JUST by throwing a dog in a pen once or a couple of times. There are key words and actions used by the trainer that make the difference. Mrs. Betty has not ever mentioned a personality change in Lucy...

JMHO If you don't know what you're doing, don't do it or you will regret it.

~Mis

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 Post subject: Re: Bay Pen Traning
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:17 am 
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Interesting. My male was only 5 months old when he was exposed to hogs. I had him only for a few hours. He was the quiet one. He still is but will stand up for himself. I think I base my experiences on having catahoulas...I still have just one blue lacy..maybe I need to get more lacys to see if my experiences will change :)) I can tell you though that catahoulas do change once they are exposed to hogs. I've had around 14 catahoulas before I got a lacy. I think lacys are much more easier to handle but then I read horror stories about other people who have lacys that behave differently than mine and realize I'm grateful I got a laid back one :))


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Pen Traning
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:07 pm 
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Ted, I wonder if what you are noticing is just the dog growing up, not something that was specifically triggered by the bay pen. Because my experience was the complete opposite with Sadie. She didn't have a working outlet, and at around 6-7 months her instincts kicked in and it was total chaos. She wasn't just a dominate and protective dog, she became an aggressive and reactive dog. But once she started working in the pen and getting out in the woods at a year old, you could see that something clicked. Just having an appropriate and acceptable outlet for her drive immediately fixed about 80% of her behavior issues.

In general, curs like Cats and Lacys don't take crap, from dogs or people. It sounds like Moonshine is a lot more laid back than most, but I think a lot of these working dogs get assertive with age due to the instincts that were bred into them, not because of the outlet they are given. Mis summed it up really well. I definitely think these dogs understand and respect the difference between what they do on the job and how they act at home.

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"You must be a very small minority no matter who you hang around with. Maybe you should start a magazine, Vegetarian Hog Dogging Monthly, find some like-minded individuals."
- Inspiration for my next project from TBH

True Blue Lacys: http://www.truebluelacys.com
More Lacy Pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/julieanna/sets/72157605027566732/


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 Post subject: Re: Bay Pen Traning
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:26 pm 
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Mis was exactly right in saying that Lucy did not change after being in put in a bay pen. I dont remember how old she was, but she was grown. Lucy has always hated pigs, but I certainly wouldnt say that pigs determine who she is.

Each dog is different, even tho they are all lacys. Lucy is different from Larry, Larry different from Abe. What we should be doing is putting out is our experiences, but understand that those experiences are always determined by the dog, the owner and the experiences that the pair has learned from.


Betty

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