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 Post subject: Recall??
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 pm 
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Location: Maumelle, AR
Im curious about some of yalls opinions on how to properly train a good fail proof recall? My dogs drive me crazy when they don't come when called ALL the time! :-?

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 Post subject: Re: Recall??
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 5:12 pm 
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I back up my "out" with a fully charged shock collar. :) There may be better ways, but I've always used a shock collar for my dogs who are more trash-prone than others.

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 Post subject: Re: Recall??
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:05 pm 
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How about this: http://www.shirleychong.com/keepers/archives/roadkill.txt


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 Post subject: Re: Recall??
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:39 am 
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I agree with Rachael on the E-collar. There is no substitute for being able to give correction at the exact moment when the problem occurs. Anytime you cant give the correction immediately the dog is not sure what he is corrected for.


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 Post subject: Re: Recall??
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:24 am 
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+1 for the e-collar. it is used to get their attention. not a punishment, if you burn a dog down with one you will ruin it for life.

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 Post subject: Re: Recall??
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:12 pm 
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azchad wrote:
if you burn a dog down with one you will ruin it for life.


this is fact for any dog but I suspect a Lacy is even more susceptible to this. My dog has worn an e-collar a lot but probably only felt it 3-4 times in his life. I feel this ration is important to prevent them from getting collar wise also.


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 Post subject: Re: Recall??
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:03 pm 
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bboswell wrote:
azchad wrote:
if you burn a dog down with one you will ruin it for life.


this is fact for any dog but I suspect a Lacy is even more susceptible to this. My dog has worn an e-collar a lot but probably only felt it 3-4 times in his life. I feel this ration is important to prevent them from getting collar wise also.


I wonder what the obedience trainer yesterday used to teach his pitt bull "out". That dog released and almost ran to his owner as soon as he heard the word.


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 Post subject: Re: Recall??
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:04 pm 
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they put the shock collar around their belly with the prongs on the underside...even a stubborn dog will listen.. :))

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 Post subject: Re: Recall??
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:08 pm 
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azchad wrote:
they put the shock collar around their belly with the prongs on the underside...even a stubborn dog will listen.. :))


It worked! That was the best behaved pitt bull I've ever seen.


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 Post subject: Re: Recall??
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:28 pm 
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Thanks for the resoponces! :) I have been considering the e-collar thing. I've heard tritronics?? Which model for one or two dogs? Trying to stay under $200...

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 Post subject: Re: Recall??
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 11:48 pm 
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Ok...so after looking a little...looks like under $300 might be more realistic... :-?

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 Post subject: Re: Recall??
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:02 am 
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I like Innotek. I have used that brand for a long time and the collars have pretty decent life expectancy and the batteries are easy to replace. They don't have super long range though, so you've really got to keep you eye out for right when your dog breaks.

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 Post subject: Re: Recall??
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:38 am 
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Thanks Rachael! I looked at those a little...they seem like a good one. I've been looking at the Tri tronics Sport Combo G3 EXP for $257 w/ free shipping... I like the idea of it being expandable and it has a half mile range...

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 Post subject: Re: Recall??
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:53 am 
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Ed, though I know Lamar will use shock collars occassionally, he only ever uses them correctly around the neck. And I don't know if he ever used one on Panda. He does most of his corrections with a prong collar and reinforces with whatever the dogs loves most. For Panda, that's tug. So during training, if Lamar said come, Panda would get a huge game of tug if he came right away. And Lamar has three other pit bulls that have been trained the same way.

I did Sadie's final obedience training with Lamar, and we used similar reinforcements. But most of her basic obedience, including recall, I did on my own with entirely positive reinforcements. And though her recall isn't as precise as it could be, sometimes she stops to smell something on her way back, I know she's gonna come. I think reinforcement is often overlooked in training hunting and working dogs. You should never jump to the punishment until you know, beyond a doubt, that the dog understands what they should do. And that can change depending on the environment. Just because a dog comes in the house or comes in a fenced yard doesn't mean they'll come in the woods. You have to proof it in different environments. But I would start rewarding the heck out of them each and every time they display a perfect recall. If you can call them out in the open and they come for a reward, you'll know that they know. I found that I had good enough rewards and Sadie was smart enough that the reinforcement was enough, I never needed to punish her for not coming.

If you have tried rewards and they aren't working, I think the only acceptable punishment for recall training is a shock collar. It's the only way you can deliver a precise correction at a distance. And if you think your dog's life is in danger, by all means, take it to that level. But personally I've never used a shock collar and doubt I ever will.

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 Post subject: Re: Recall??
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:26 am 
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Sat, the cattle dog trainer told me something that I think was really good. It's not exactly what is being talked about here, but it did add a bit of knowledge for me about training. It's how he trains pups on cattle. He said that when he is working pups, he lets them go out and really carry on with the cattle, barking, running, etc. Then, after they get tired he starts working with calling instructions to them. After they are tired, their ears work better :)) and they are more acceptable to training. Makes sense and it could be used under certain conditions. I know that Lucy is much more willing to work with me and to come when I call her when she is tired. My recall with her is MUCH better when there is just her and when she has worked the cattle and is a little worn out.

Betty

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