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 Post subject: Boot Camp 101!
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:06 pm 
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Let's try this again! I think I may be cursed because it has taken persistance to get this thing going.
Anyway, while we are enjoying the pleasures of having a beautiful baby Lacy named Skyy, there are a few issues that have come up that we are not sure how to tackle. So I will go ahead and spill the beans.
Due to the number of professional and non-professional opinions out there on how to train your dog, it has become somewhat overwhelming and very confusing with regards to correctly training Skyy. The first thing we would like correct is her aggressive behavior when she is eating her chicken. While chowing down on her "prize" she will not let you get close to her. She will actually pack up her kill and haul booty to get away from you! I have heard to "spat" her on the nose, but I am worried she will eventually become scared of me or even worse, people. What is the best way to correct this negative behavior?

Second, Skyy is so full of attitude that sometimes when you tell her "no" she will growl at you to let you know that she doesn't agree. So much that it can lead to her barking at you. On top of this she also nips at your face and her razer sharp teeth dig right in. What is the best way to stop the growling and attitude & is the nipping something that will go away with time or does it need to be corrected now and how?

and gets so excited when you either play with her


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 Post subject: Re: Boot Camp 101!
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:22 pm 
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First thing first, don't give her the whole chicken. There is a process between when they leave their litter mates, having to fight for their food, and when they become accustomed to you becoming the boss. Make sure that she knows that her food comes from you when and only when you give it to her. Cut it up and give her piece at a time. As she gets more used to that, you can start making her do tricks for each piece but the trick is to make sure that she knows you are the boss and her food comes from you.

Don't spank her nose for running away with food. That's the reason that she is running away with it in the first place. Not because you spanked her nose but because her siblings bit fought and took her food. Pups don't get a free meal either.

I doubt that you have had her long enough that she actually knows what the word NO means but she may well have already associated it with negative reinforcement. Oh ya, they will growl at you until they concede that you ate the boss.

Nipping at this age is just playing. In time and with training she will learn that its not acceptable.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Boot Camp 101!
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:38 pm 
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I say it is time she learns you are BOSS. I think you need to control what she gets to eat. You can cut the chicken up into pieces and give her pieces until she realizes you are the food provided and she will not growl at you. By growling she is letting you know you are not in control and she is testing you big time. It may take her a few days and she may go a little hungry but she will catch on that if she wants to eat you will be around. Her mama wouldn't let do that to her when she was eating on her. Do you have kids? Would you let you kid do that to you? When I feed my dogs chicken hearts I close it up in my hand so they gently take it out of my hand if they bite me they get popped for doing so. If they want the treat they take it nice and easy. I control the situation.Be consistent though what ever you do. Grab a newspaper and take it with you and pop her with it so when she growls at you swat her with that and tell her no in a firm voice. She will catch on.

I use the kid example because it is true puppies are like kids, you never trust them alone for very long and if the get quite you need to run quick!

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 Post subject: Re: Boot Camp 101!
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:07 pm 
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Oh yes, the joys of a rebellious Lacy puppy!

I know there is a ton of conflicting information out there. But if you want to look up some good training ideas, try Googling "Nothing In Life Is Free." These are good places to start: http://www.k9deb.com/nilif.htm and http://www.ddfl.org/behavior/nilif.pdf. Essentially, you make the dog work for everything. You become the bringer of all good things, but good things only come when they do what you want. Lacys are very bright and will catch on to the concept quickly. It has the dual benefit of establishing you as a pack leader. I'm not a big fan of physical dominance training, but Lacys do need to know who is boss. In my opinion that can usually be achieved with NILIF.

Feeding her bites of chicken out of your hand is a perfect is the perfect way to start NILIF with a puppy. The way to really enforce that is only giving her the next piece when she is waiting calmly for it. If she rushes your hand, growls or barks, you calmly pull the chicken away. If she throw a fit, wait it out. When she calms down, praise her and give her another bite. So in one exercise you establish "I am the controller of the food" as well as "a calm puppy is a rewarded puppy."

Steve's other points about running away with the food sound spot on as well.

Can you describe the sassy attitude a little more... How are you correcting her? What are you correcting her for? And when does she start growling and barking? Lacys are feisty, and it sounds like she is testing her boundaries, so you can't let her run all over you. If you back down or act scared or try to placate her, she's gonna learn that bad behavior gets her what she wants. If you practice NILIF and remain the calm leader in the situation, that will teach her that good behavior is the real key to getting her way.

Also, is the nipping concurrent or separate from that? I'm not clear if that is part of her reaction to being corrected or another issue. Lacys do seem to be very mouthy, Sadie gets me all the time when she comes to kiss my face, like she intersperses little nibbles with licking. But actually biting my face would be an entirely different issue.

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True Blue Lacys: http://www.truebluelacys.com
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 Post subject: Re: Boot Camp 101!
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 6:29 pm 
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Seth
I already gave you my two cents worth :)
I promise she won't become afraid of you or people if you spat her nose.
If you beat the crap out of her..then she will though ! And you don't want that.

~Mis

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Bayed Blue...Bayed True...That's A Lacy Dog
If You can't keep up with the Lacy Dog...stay on the porch!
http://www.nationallacydog.org/index.html
http://www.lacyhuntingdogs.bravehost.com


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 Post subject: Re: Boot Camp 101!
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:44 pm 
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Cannon did that "nipping at the face" thing, and one time drew some blood. It's clearly a play thing, not aggression, but that doesn't mean it isn't dangerous, especially to someone not expecting it. The time he drew blood, I reacted as you would expect someone to, tossing him away a couple of yards. I was shocked. I acted really offended, and showed him the blood. That stopped that behavior for quite awhile. I just need to reinforce that it's unacceptable now and then. At 8 months, verbal reminders are working well.

I agree on metering out the food, and making then "work for it" even if that is just being calm and sitting still. But once I give food to Cannon, that food is his, and I would never take it back. Taking it back is not something that is done in the wild by the parent or alpha. If it's something he really likes, especially something he knows he can't wolf down, then he will growl when I get close, even though I just handed it to him. I make sure he knows he can't get aggressive no matter what, but I don't mess with the food once it is his.

The Lacy puppy period is both joyfull and trying. She is going to be sorting out the relationships, and will be doing that every second of every day. I thought of it as Cannon constantly saying "Can I be the boss now? No? then how about now? Okay then.. now? Well then maybe I can at least take this and make it mine, right? No? How about this then.." over and over and over. They are learning about the world, you, and themselves. Be as patient and consistent as you can. Once it's over, you'll be relieved, and also miss it! Be as positive as you can during the period, and it will pay off in a tight bond once the phase is past.

All opinions expressed are mine, and not necessarily those of Cannon.

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 Post subject: Re: Boot Camp 101!
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:49 pm 
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Well I would like to like to thank everyone for all of the great advice!!! Skyy is doing better now that we have started to meter her food. She is learning so quickly and it seems that she understands when you tell her "no" or "stop it". Most of the time she replys with a simple grunt or growl simply letting us know she doesn't like our decision. It is actually quite amusing because it reminds you of something a kid would do!

She is getting bigger by the minute and I have tried to log into flickr to download more pictures, but since it has also been a long time since I last logged into there it has locked me out of yahoo. So I am waiting for Yahoo to contact me back so I can then log into flickr to upload more pics. More updates to come!

Out of curiosity, when I try to train for scent tracking, and since I don't have any blood, will using the meat itself be any good. If so what is the best technique? Every time I try to train her with venison she is only interested in what is in my hand. I have tried to break her of this by putting several pieces of the meat out and then have her start the trail. Once she finds the first piece she immediately looks at me wondering "where is the next one?". I have run out of ideas.


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 Post subject: Re: Boot Camp 101!
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:12 pm 
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Get some chicken livers. Lay the trail with the juice/blood from the liver container.
ONLY put a liver/treat at the end of the trail.

You can also use the blood off of hamburger meat or a roast ect. Or talk to your local taxidermist or meat market about saving you some blood.

Glad Skyy is doing good :)

I`m looking for your flickr addy, I know it's in my email somewhere...lol

~Mis

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M.D.Brooks Founding Member & Breeders Committee Chair
Bayed Blue...Bayed True...That's A Lacy Dog
If You can't keep up with the Lacy Dog...stay on the porch!
http://www.nationallacydog.org/index.html
http://www.lacyhuntingdogs.bravehost.com


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 Post subject: Re: Boot Camp 101!
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:28 am 
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I use blood from beef livers when I dont have deer blood. Have also used blood from thawed out meat, but it tends to be thinner and disappears on you, so drop it on some rocks as you go. I tend to forget where I laid the line, so it helps for me with a new dog in training to be able to see where we are going. If you can, lay the trail, then go wash your hands so she wont be smelling anything but soap on you. She will soon learn that there is more to be gained by following the trail than what is smelling on your hands. Tell her to 'find it' when you are showing her the starting point. If she is still interested in your hands, open them up to show her that there is nothing in your hands. Just keep working her, she will learn what is expected of her and that there are goodeys at the end of the trail. Be sure to praise her really good when she does find the end of the trail.

Looking forward to the pictures. We all love them!!

Betty

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 Post subject: Re: Boot Camp 101!
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:46 am 
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If you have enough blood use a turkey baster or medicine dropper, so you won't have any on your hand. If not wear gloves. We got blood from the market and then dropped it with a turkey baster and then laid long trails and at the end was a hot dog as that was left over lunch. They didn't care it was covered in all that blood. If you can get enough freeze it in gatorade bottle or coke bottles it makes it easy for individual trails. It is a mess when seperating it out, but worth it when you are laying trails.

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 Post subject: Re: Boot Camp 101!
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:57 am 
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These are all good posts and advice. I will add what i found to work best for me. As for getting the blood I started off by getting the blood from a deer i had harvested. I also ask my friends if they wouldnt mind getting the blood for me when they go hunting. When dressing a deer there is alot of blood usually left in the chest cavity and its really easy to get in to a big zip lock freezer bag although it is a little messy. You can use the drippings off of the meat you have packaged but it is really thin. When I get the blood home I pour it into those butter, cottage cheese, etc. containers we all keep. now you will notice that the blood is coagulating, the fun but really important step is next, put it in the blender and run it till its back to a liquid. Pour it back into the containers, lable it and freeze. Ive used the basters, sponges, drags etc. I like to use the catchup/ mustard containers that you squeze, the ones like in diners. They have a small cap on the top and you can refreeze the blood you dont use for the next time. I found them in a set at walmart for a buck. make sure you write blood on them with a marker:-) You can control the amount of blood flow and direction with these, from drops ever so far, to an artieral spray. when I go out to lay a trail, I use my four wheeler if i can, but sometimes I put on the rubber boots, sprayed with scent killer, and go. You will find these dogs are very smart and will start tracking you instead of the blood. I made a couple of 33 foot leads out of climbing rope, I only use them for trailing or recovery. The dogs will learn if you have a certain lead and harness its time for work, like tracking and ecollars when you hunt hogs, bear, or cats,etc. they know the diffrence. The most important thing is to make it enjoyable for you both, I love to feel the pull of the lead and to watch them find the treat at the end of the trail, usually a piece of raw venison.

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 Post subject: Re: Boot Camp 101!
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:32 pm 
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i like the idea of the ketchup bottle. that works great.

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 Post subject: Re: Boot Camp 101!
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:39 pm 
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Well since I wasn't able to get the blood from all the deer this year it looks like I will be going to speak with the butcher this weekend when we go to the store. I will probably go with the cheap ketchup bottles as that seems to probably be the best bet. Plus they have a larger opening to get the goods into them.

Mis,

I was able to find my password and logged into flikr. Here is the site for everone to enjoy. There is more to come. My wife has yet to take pics of Skyy outside, but we will be taking some soon. Possibly some video footage as well.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sljeffrey

Thanks again for all the help!


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 Post subject: Re: Boot Camp 101!
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 8:25 am 
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What a cutie. Those are some awesome picture.

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 Post subject: Re: Boot Camp 101!
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:41 pm 
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Thanks for posting the link for the pictures. I loved them all!!

Betty

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"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did
better."
Maya Angelou

"You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something in your life!"
Winston Churchill

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bjleek/


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