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 Post subject: Tree question
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:15 am 
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In a sanctioned event for treeing, does the dog have to sound out an indicator bark?

I know that in most of your big coon dog events the dogs are open on track and are expected to be.


~Mis

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 Post subject: Re: Tree question
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:57 am 
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My understanding is that the dog is not required to bark until it is on tree for either coon or squirrel trials.

However, the way that the pointing system works and the gentlemanly aspect of the sport "controlling dogs", barking track and or indicator barking can be situationally beneficial to point standings.

Does that make sense?

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Tree question
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 12:24 pm 
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From what I'm learning, they only technically need to bark when they are treed. At that point they need to chop up a storm.

But when they are scoring the events, if a dog barks and they can't see it, they seem to assume the dog is looking at a squirrel/coon. They often get points for that even though they could be opening on trail or just barking for the hell of it. If your dog trees and the judge gets to see it, you'll be put on top, but it sounds like those trail barks could help you out. I'll try to look into it some more. Though I don't mind Sadie barking up a tree at game, she should stay closed on track for hogs, which is her natural instinct anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Tree question
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:06 pm 
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I do not know if Legend will tree...but hey whats the harm in adding that to his resume?
But I didn't want to do something with him that could cause him to be open on track as that is not a desired trait for hog dogs.

Thanks for the info !!!

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Bayed Blue...Bayed True...That's A Lacy Dog
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 Post subject: Re: Tree question
 Post Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:05 pm 
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Mis, we'll have to put our heads together on good ways to train the differentiation between tasks... I'm convinced it's gonna be collars that do it, and maybe a casting command. I think if we make it very clear that the tasks are different, I'm guessing we can control the behavior surrounding it. But honestly, I don't think we need to worry about opening on trail too much, Lacys are definitely silent, and I think they'll carry that trait over into treeing.

So right now for collars I am doing a cut collar for hogs. Hunting, baying, barking from outside a pen, whatever, she'll always wear the cut collar. I'll start putting on a biothane hunting collar for treeing, so anytime we might work on that activity she'll wear it, and it would double for a trap line if we ever do that again. I'm going to get a harness for tracking. And then with agility we practice in her soft nylon collar, but soon she'll do it with nothing since they aren't supposed to wear collars in competition. Think that should cover me? I'm guessing those are the only sports we can do because we're gonna run out of collars!

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 Post subject: Re: Tree question
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:48 pm 
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I know this is a old post but I thought I could contribute since I have been a UKC/PKC/NKC night hunt judge in the past.

The dog is not required to open on track, however most with a silent dog will call their dog struck on the first tree bark just to get the track points(not completely legal). The points usually descend 125, 75, 50, 25 depending on the registry, so if you get last strike every time you will get buried. Tree points generally are scored in the same amount from first to last dog called treed.

If the coon is seen by the majority it is scored + points, if the tree is hollow or otherwise possible the game can be hidden it is scored circled points, if the tree is obviously void of game or holds the wrong game it will be - points. Circle points only count in the event of a tie or no + points are scored. (25+ points would beat 2000 circle points.) It has been about 15 years since I have been an active judge so some things may have changed slightly, but this is basically how the scoring works.

The dogs are cast in a 4 dog cast, they bust it out of dodge in search of game that is desired as the dog barks you call your dogs action, this is where the tree dog breeds are clearly set apart, strike/treed and are scored by the judge in the order they are called by their handler.


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 Post subject: Re: Tree question
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:16 pm 
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Scott,
Thank you for digging up this old post! How you explained it clarified somethings for me !!
Appreciate it a lot!

How did you get in to judging (out of curiosity) ? :)

Thanks again!!
~Mis

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Bayed Blue...Bayed True...That's A Lacy Dog
If You can't keep up with the Lacy Dog...stay on the porch!
http://www.nationallacydog.org/index.html
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 Post subject: Re: Tree question
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:11 am 
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All registered cast have hunting judges, so I was the only club member on some of these cast. I knew the rules well so I started getting asked to judge Nt.Ch. & Gr.Nt.Ch. cast that use non hunting judges. I knew the rules well enough at one time to pass the master of hounds test.


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 Post subject: Re: Tree question
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 12:31 am 
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Scott, Can you explain the nite champion and grand nite champion? I have an english red tick gyp that has those in her papers and I was just wondering what it all ment or how it was achieved?

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 Post subject: Re: Tree question
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:41 am 
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A gotta question..a friend is raising some Blue ticks obtained from GA, SC and south FL. He's training them as they are young dogs and brought a trapped coon over to my place with one of his young dogs. Amos and Otis had never seen a coon but turned on hard. He was real impressed by how quickly they turned on. He let the coon out too close to a tree and it went to the top. Mine treed and barked but I had to shoot it out, dropped dead but i stuck it up in a limber tree and started shaking the tree so it looked like it was alive again. Both of mine went nuts until they finally grabbed it out of the tree. But they showed no interest once it stopped moving?
Anyway, this friend is amember in the American Coon hunter local association and I asked if I could join them for a hunt. He has tracking collars, etc. But I got to rethinking this decision since you all have said that Lacy's should be silent on the track and I did not want to teach mine something they should not be doing. So, to hunt coon or not??
I'm gonna wait until cold weather as I hate banana spiders in the face and moccasins so anyway, this inquiring mind wants to know.
My husband does not get why I have a passion for the chase but I came by it honestly. My opportunities for hunting with my dogs is so limited where I live so I'm looking for something and someone to go with. But for the record there won't be any hog hunting in this family.


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 Post subject: Re: Tree question
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:52 am 
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Amos Moses wrote:
So, to hunt coon or not??


Why not? A dog does not have to be open to hunt coons. It may be beneficial to point standings in a night hunt event but for pleasures sake, who cares?

You should expect your dogs to hunt short, at first especially, but when they bump into a few and start learning the game, they should start hunting harder.

If your concern is your dogs opening up on track, just don't run them with open dogs.

Steve

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Remember the dog wags the pedigree and the reverse is not true.

16, intelligent and articulate, I'm a fan!


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 Post subject: Re: Tree question
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:57 am 
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Also, if you're not planning on doing any other type of hunting where it's important to be silent on track, why would it matter if they opened up?

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 Post subject: Re: Tree question
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:49 pm 
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I know nothing of the baying question, but as far as being good for you and the dogs both-GO FOR IT. You love hunting so much as do your dogs and I just know that you will be in for a thrill to see them doing what they were meant to do. I doesnt matter whether its a coon or a huge hog, the dogs will love it and you will love seeing them work.

And, by the way, once a varmint is dead, be it deer or coon, my dogs, particularly Lucy have absolutely no interest in it. You can shake the dickens out of it, but if its dead, Lucy knows it and she wants to go on and find something else. The others are pretty much the same way, but Larry will continue to shake it once its dead. He just wants to make double darn sure its dead!! Of course, with Larry, when he finds it several days later he is once again interested in it to roll in it and get all stinky!! Crazy dog!!

Betty

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 Post subject: Re: Tree question
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:55 pm 
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And, by the way, once a varmint is dead, be it deer or coon, my dogs, particularly Lucy have absolutely no interest in it. You can shake the dickens out of it, but if its dead, Lucy knows it and she wants to go on and find something else.


With hog hunting, that's a good thing. After the dogs bay a hog and it's either tied or dispatched, you want them to roll out after the next one.

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 Post subject: Re: Tree question
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:15 pm 
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The Titles come from accumulated points from placing in night hunts. You start in registered class and have to have at least 1 first place win in a hunt. The rest of the points can be from a combination of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place wins until the point amount is accumulated. Once you achieve Nt. Ch. status you will compete with Nt. Ch. cast. If I remember correctly you have to get 3 1st place wins to get the Gr.Nt.Ch. title.

Rebecca if it were me I would turn a few trapped coons loose in front of them, then start hunting over feeders. I've owned hounds that were silent on track or very tight mouthed, this is not all together a bad thing and usually leads to very short tracks. It can also lead to a lot of coons caught on the ground, so be prepared. Personally the lure of the sport was listening to the dog work the track. Also hounds aren't bellowing all the time like portrayed on T.V. As for to do it or not, take a trip as a spectator with some of those club members to see if you might be interested.


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