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 Post Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 12:55 pm 
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Not sure if you guys saw the new blog entry, but one of this news links is for an ESPN article about Kemmer Mountain Curs, http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/hunt ... id=3634253. Very cool. Sadie has actually shown a natural tendency to tree, though she needs to be encouraged to bark, and this renewed my interest in exploring the world of squirrel dog.

So I wandered over to Squirrel Dog Central and started a thread inquiring as to how to start a hog dog on squirrels. I'm getting interesting ideas, but the issue of trashing came up, which has been my biggest concern with cross training. How do you train a dog to hog hunt when it is time to hog hunt and squirrel hunt when it is time to squirrel hunt? I think the answer lies in the collar, and maybe the conditions and time you hunt, but it would require not punishing the dog for trashing on either game. Any other ideas?

I absolutely loved this one response and thought you guys would appreciate it. What do you think? Has hunting become too specialized or is meat still meat?

"it would be nice to find other folks who hunt multiple species with one dog... there aren't many people around like that anymore, except for those who squirrel hunt during daylight and coon hunt at night. cur dogs, and blue lacys, were never meant to be one trick ponies. they were pioneer dogs, and those people could not afford a different dog for every critter. at the same time, there was no such thing as "trashing" in those days. meat was meat."

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 Post Posted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 8:59 pm 
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I would not try to change from one task to another unless my dog knows and mastered the first task. I have wanted to try Digger on hogs, but he is alot more valuable as a deer dog....


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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 10:34 am 
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jerryg wrote:
I would not try to change from one task to another unless my dog knows and mastered the first task. I have wanted to try Digger on hogs, but he is alot more valuable as a deer dog....


Yeah, that is the quandary, whether or not introducing a second kind of game would interfere too much with the first kind. One of the squirrel hunters said he planned to start one of his curs on squirrels, run him for two seasons as a squirrel dog, then try hog once the first game was established. So maybe another season of hog hunting would help establish that task.

I do think that the collars, a cut collar versus a biothane hunting collar, as well as time of day, squirrel hunting in daylight and hog hunting after dark, would help differentiate the tasks. It would take a lot of work and there would inevitably be slip ups. Plus I'm not sure there are enough squirrels in Central Texas for her to actually hunt or even trash on, they don't frequent the cedar trees.

But I'm definitely drawn to the idea of a truly versatile dog.

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"You must be a very small minority no matter who you hang around with. Maybe you should start a magazine, Vegetarian Hog Dogging Monthly, find some like-minded individuals."
- Inspiration for my next project from TBH

True Blue Lacys: http://www.truebluelacys.com
More Lacy Pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/julieanna/sets/72157605027566732/


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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:50 pm 
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My nephew in Phoenix, who is a cop, told me that their police dog could work as a SAR and a drug dog. He had a different harness for each job. If a plain old dog can learn to hunt 2 different things then why not a lacy? They are way smarter than most dogs.

Besides, we have to remember that the lacy dog was bred as a ranch dog, which meant that they needed to be good at everything that a ranch dog did. The ranchers needed a dog who could herd cattle or hogs, track and bring home the meat and rest while watching the kids. There may have been dogs that excelled at one or the other particular task, but basically, they could do it all. And, I think that they still can. Thats why I was drawn to the lacy dog in the first place.

I can understand where Jerry is coming from, in wanting to keep Digger as his super tracker. It would be bad to ruin a great tracker, but I dont think that it would. Lucy is certainly able to know the difference from when she is tracking a deer and when she isnt. And, Lucy isnt highly trained like Digger or Luna are. Most of Lucys ability to track is what she was born with. I dont doubt that she can track a hog, once she knew what she was tracking. Of course, I dont expect her to be a hog dog like the Brooks or Steves dogs, but she should be able to work hogs after a little training. I think that she is smart enough to know what I want her to find. I know that she can herd cattle and loves to, altho not as much as she loves tracking. She doesnt have the kill instinct as strongly as Larry does, but she will work a coon or a bobcat, as she has been put on both. And, you would be hard pressed to find a better, sweeter dog than she is. It took her a little while to get to that point, but she is as good natured dog as you could ever hope to find.

So, I think that 'meat is meat' and the lacy dog CAN do it all.

Betty

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 Post Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:03 pm 
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I have never wanted to trash break Ben. If we are out hunting and come a cross a fresh trail or see a cat or coon I will just tell Ben to go and find it. I realize that I am not running a hound that will track a cold track and trail the critter all over. Most of the time Ben is by my side and I have a good handle on him, so if we run across something that I do not want him to go after I can just call him off. We have treed squirrel, coon ect. although we are 0 for 4 on cats because of dog pair. I have never wanted him to be one job dog, he will never be able to run hogs with yalls dogs or trail like Jerrys dogs, but he does a good job with what I want him to do.

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sitting and wishing wont change your fate, the lord provides the fishing, but you still have to dig the bait.


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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:33 pm 
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I know a Lacy can do it all, I have no doubt that they are born with several types of strong instincts, and Sadie has shown natural ability in several arenas. But should an individual Lacys do it all?

So I guess it becomes an almost philosophical argument... does being an all-around working dog mean each dog should have diverse jobs or that the breed in general can do it all? I think the historically accurate answer is that the breed was intended to be a jack of all trades, the meat is meat philosophy of frontier survival. But dogs are used in very different ways these days. Many owners are competitive, either in sanctioned events or with their buddies, and they look for a specialist that excels in their chosen activity. The modern hunter/tracker/rancher doesn't want a generalist, they want the best. Is it better to have Lacys who excel at a given task and thus bring recognition to the breed, or Lacys that fufill their historical purpose and do it all?

I'd argue that we need both types of owners to truly support the breed. We need people like Robby that never trash break their dogs, and we need people like Jerry who have extremely specialized dogs, because that shows the dogs really can do it all at every level.

When I think about it that way, in theory, I'd like Sadie to be one of the generalists. She is working dog completely due to her instincts. Because I don't have a particularly strong attachment to one task, I figure I'm the type of owner that could support her being good at several things rather than needing a star at one thing.

Of course I'm still not sure how we'll do it in reality!

_________________
"You must be a very small minority no matter who you hang around with. Maybe you should start a magazine, Vegetarian Hog Dogging Monthly, find some like-minded individuals."
- Inspiration for my next project from TBH

True Blue Lacys: http://www.truebluelacys.com
More Lacy Pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/julieanna/sets/72157605027566732/


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 Post Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:22 pm 
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So are you all ready for my philosophy on this since I am training a Lacy for multiple jobs simultaneously?
(Hadn't thought about using him for treeing though I do like to coon hunt...now I`m thinking maybe :razz: )

I`ve looked at this from two stand points. The first being as breeder. I KNOW my Lacy pups will hog hunt and track because their parents do, as well as their parents siblings, other offspring ect but the Lacy is said to be the perfect all around ranch dog. I did not say that, the breeds designer and history say that. As a breeder I would like to be able, with confidence, to tell people that yes MY lines fit that rather large boot the Lacy is said to be able to fill.

Now as just me...Legend is my project for me. Fail or succeed I`m assuming responsibility.
Personally I want MY Lacy dog to not just be able to do it all but actually do it all and do it well. I have stock for herding so I actually have a need there since Savannah is now 14yrs old. All of Mike's Lacy Dogs have been specifically worked in the woods for hog hunting. They will track wounded game (some better than others) with out distraction (the older dogs) but at this point they are exactly what Mike wants them to be so teaching one to herd was not going to be an option. This brings us to Legend. I want to be able to do it all with him. If we are visiting Jim & running lines, I want Legend to be able to do that knowingly and well. Or if Kass wants to drag him along on a hog hunt..I want him to be a damn good woods dog. And should Mike or Kass ever NOT drop a deer and it have to be tracked I want Legend to find my back strap! ;) Then come evening I want him to help me put my goats up (and whatever else I have talked hubby into us having)

Can you see the incredible amount of pressure I am putting on myself & Legend ? I want his name to fit him when he grows up.Do I think he can do achieve that? At this point I`m extremely encouraged and even a little surprised.
Right now he is a pup, we will see how I feel about all of this this time next year.

~Mis

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