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Wonder if the mountain cur is part of the lacy make up?
http://www.nationallacydog.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=1932
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Author:  TedH71 [ Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Wonder if the mountain cur is part of the lacy make up?

I've been corresponding with a lady whose family participates in mountain cur events and she told me their breed's traits and seems lots of it is what lacys have as well as some are blues, blue/tan, and tri colors. Predominant color tends to be brindle though and up to 50% of the pups born have natural bob tails. Said the breed does not like being yelled at or whipped. They're also not big dogs either.

Author:  Julie N [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wonder if the mountain cur is part of the lacy make up?

I feel like we've touched on this before, but most of the cur "breeds" started as lines that got bred based on type rather than pedigree. You can get blue BMCs and blue Cats too, so the dilute gene appears to be in pretty much all of them. And despite the physical variations we see today, their basic construction is pretty much the same. The main differentiator in the breeds is geographic more than anything, dictated by the type of work and terrain they excelled in. The Lacys specialized in working free range hogs in the Texas Hill Country brush. Cats did similar work but in the Louisiana swamp. Mountain Curs were developed out East as treeing and big game dogs. But for most their existence, the battle cry of cur breeders was "form follows function" and dogs were bred for working ability. Somewhat "closed" studbooks are a fairly recent phenomena for curs.

Author:  TedH71 [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wonder if the mountain cur is part of the lacy make up?

Never heard of a blue bmc though. Interesting. I've seen them in brindle, saddleback, yellow, and red but not blue.

Author:  Julie N [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wonder if the mountain cur is part of the lacy make up?

Blue BMCs are supposed to be rare, but apparently the Ladners do get them on a semi-consistent basis. More common than a solid blue would be BMCs that look like the classic yellows, but instead of having a black muzzle they have a dilute blue muzzle. Caused by the same gene that dilutes the solid blue dogs, but obviously you only see where there is black hair.

Not the bluest one I've seen, but it's the first picture I could find:

Image

The Mountain Curs do come in solid blue and tri blue that is identical to a Lacy. But most of the blue MCs I've seen have a decent amount of white on them. Big socks, full white chest, sometimes white on the face. Not to mention the houndier ears. Of course both those traits show up plenty in Lacys, they just aren't supposed to. Certainly provides another good theory on where they come from /:)

Tri blue MC pup:
Image

Author:  TedH71 [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wonder if the mountain cur is part of the lacy make up?

Interesting! I also recall that Michelle Mears (think that's her name spelled right) who used to hunt hogs with her blackmouth curs prior to her death...her blackmouth curs had a rare coloring in which they all were having liver colored noses and gums. Sad that Michelle went the way she did.

Author:  Clifford [ Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wonder if the mountain cur is part of the lacy make up?

Well, this may not be popular, and it certainly will fly against conventional wisdom or the dogma of the Church of Marlo that has been placed in Texas history since Lacys became the state dog, but I have long considered that the Lacy brothers might have just brought a dog to Texas that was already mostly what is now called a Lacy.
I have several friends who own red Mountain Curs, and they are almost indistinguishable from my pair of red Lacys..
So, continuing...
If the Lacy brothers had dogs, which we can assume to be true... And, they gained a reputation of being jam up... Isn't it possible that someone might say something like, "You need to get one of those Lacy's dogs!", which might in turn end up being something like saying in MS, go get a Ladner cur, instead of a Ladner BMC, and ended up being, "Get a Lacy dog!"?
The colors could also be the product of breeding what was available over many generations. And, since there were only a few of these dogs in any particular location, and traveling to breed them might have been a monumental task, I also submit that there were a lot times when the dogs were bred in a tight pool.
I believe that red and blue both come from black, and there are plenty of black MCs....
Lacys are not that similar to Cats, or BMCs, but they are extremely similar to MCs...
I'm thinking some good old boys just might have hoodwinked a whole bunch of folks!

Author:  CAMO [ Fri Jul 27, 2012 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wonder if the mountain cur is part of the lacy make up?

We will never know but intresting read. I guess you could DNA test both and compare the two if you wanted to prove that for sure.

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Author:  Clifford [ Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wonder if the mountain cur is part of the lacy make up?

Well John, you know I'm a writer... So, I try!
Besides, it's fun to speculate, and start a little heartburn at the same time...

Author:  CAMO [ Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wonder if the mountain cur is part of the lacy make up?

lol Clifford As long as they had a sample of both to compare each other to for any thing in common it would be pretth easy to see.IMO

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Author:  Atfulldraw [ Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Wonder if the mountain cur is part of the lacy make up?

It's as good of a GUESS as anyone else's GUESS B-)

Now .... if science will help the guessers to understand, then I'm in for the DNA test.

Personally, while I'd like to know.....in the end it doesn't matter for much except to stroke (or stomp) someone's ego.......the dogs certainly don't care :)

Author:  CAMO [ Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wonder if the mountain cur is part of the lacy make up?

I can tell you I do not care.They are what they are.

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Author:  Bluedog [ Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wonder if the mountain cur is part of the lacy make up?

I agree it would be interesting to just know if that were possible. I have ofter thought that someone traveling in the late 1850s or early 1860s wouldnt have a multitude of dogs traveling with them. I guess it would be possible but I would think highly unlikely. When traveling by wagon only a few miles a day the main concern would be feeding ones self and not a breeding program of dogs (15-20) or whatever. They would be traveling through rough country with all sorts of challenges just to stay alive and would think a herd of dogs would be part of the equation.

I wish we really had records that indicated exactly what went on back then, but Im enclined to think that Clifford may be on to something.

Author:  jim b [ Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wonder if the mountain cur is part of the lacy make up?

I have been luck enought to know Mrs. Helen Lacy Gibbs and talked to maney times about the Lacy dogs and the history behind them. But i will not go into that here because even if the Lacy brothers them selfs were here some one would say they do not know what they are talkeing about. From what i understand they started the breed in Ky. and finished it in Texas. I agree John it REALY dose not matter. I know what i have.

Author:  Clifford [ Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wonder if the mountain cur is part of the lacy make up?

That sounds reasonable too... But then, would they really be a native Texas breed?
I hope we don't end up with a forged birth certificate situation!

Author:  Bluedog [ Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Wonder if the mountain cur is part of the lacy make up?

now thats funny.......isnt the same thing going on in the White House

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