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 Post subject: Raw feeding poll:
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 12:52 pm 
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Location: Maumelle, AR
I want to give Remi the healthiest diet possible that is time efficient and where my wife and I can still afford to feed ourselves. Who all raw feeds, what are your opinions, and if you don't, what food do you feed?

Btw...I just switched Remi to Blue Buffalo Puppy and I am thinking about going permanently with their Wilderness line of dry food. Opinions welcome here too. :)

Here is the breakdown of the Wilderness line:

Ingredients
Deboned Chicken, Chicken Meal, Potato Starch, Turkey Meal, Whitefish Meal, Salmon Meal, Tomato Pomace (natural source of Lycopene), Chicken Fat (preserved with Natural Mixed Tocopherols), Oatmeal, Natural Chicken Flavor, Whole Carrots, Whole Sweet Potatoes, Blueberries, Cranberries, Flaxseed (natural source of Omega 6 Fatty Acids), Barley Grass, Dried Parsley, Alfalfa Meal, Dried Kelp, Taurine, L-Carnitine, L-Lysine, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, -->Yucca Shidigera Extract, Turmeric, Herring Oil (natural source of Omega 3 Fatty Acids), Dried Chicory Root, Black Malted Barley, Oil of Rosemary, Beta Carotene, Vitamin A Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (Vitamin B2), Niacin (Vitamin B3), d-Calcium Pantothenate (Vitamin B5), Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Biotin (Vitamin B7), Folic Acid (Vitamin B9), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Calcium Ascorbate (source of Vitamin C), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Amino Acid Complex (source of Chelated Iron), Zinc Amino Acid Complex (source of Chelated Zinc), Manganese Amino Acid Complex (source of Chelated Manganese), Copper Amino Acid Complex (source of Chelated Copper), Choline Chloride, Calcium Iodate, Sodium Selenite, Salt, Saccharomyces cerevisiae, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Bacillus subtilis, Enterococcus faecium.

Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein 42.0% min
Crude Fat 16.0% min
Crude Fiber 3.0% max
Moisture 10.0% max
Calcium 1.0% min
Phosphorus 0.9% min
L-Carnitine* 100 mg/kg min
Omega 3 Fatty Acids* 0.25% min
Omega 6 Fatty Acids* 3.50% min
Beta-Carotene* 5.0 mg/kg min

*Not recognized as an essential nutrient by AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles.

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding poll:
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:38 pm 
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I have fed raw for the last year; until the last month. After the deer season and smelling deer meat and a audad(sp) I couldn't stand the smell anymore. The only drawback to feeding raw was the planning. I had 5 dogs, I am down to 3.
Break down

(2)10 lb bag of chicken $5.50 at Wal-mart a week- depending on the size of the quarters
quart of chicken liver $1.25 a week/ beef liver $1.00
a packages of chicken hearts .80cnts a week

When I feed dry a bag of Diamond High Energy cost me about $25.00 every 2-3 weeks

So it is roughly about the same expense. It is much better for them to eat raw and now that it is getting hotter I will probably go back to the raw, so the weight is less on the dogs, but my schedules has been so hectic feeding has been off as well. I have noticed since switching back to dry feed they do not eat nearly as much.

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding poll:
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:59 pm 
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Chris,

I guess you know that I feed raw. Raw meat, bones and organs are the best that you can do for Remi, absolutely.

I have been intending to post some info on raw feeding, but have procrastinated about it, so now I have the incentive to do it!! The best website on raw feeding:http://www.rawfed.com/myths/index.html . Once you read this website, you will understand why Remi should eat raw. http://www.thewholedog.org/artcarnivores.html is from The Whole Dog and is just a shorter version of the rawfed site.

I have fed raw for over 3 years now. I have never looked back. It can be expensive, feeding 3 dogs, but you have to understand that in the long run, you will not be out so much money. Remi will be so much healthier that you will save money on vet bills. Her teeth will not get all yucky, so you wont have to spend the money on teeth cleaning. I spend virtually nothing on pesticides for my dogs, because they are healthy and do not attract bugs. So, I consider all of that when looking at the cost of the food.

I am very straight forward when talking about dog food. The Wilderness line that you have posted is full of stuff that your dog not only doesnt need, it cant digest it. But, I will start with the mouth. Look in Remi's mouth. She has teeth that are made for cutting and tearing meat. They ARE NOT made for chewing vegetables and grain. Her jaw works like scissors so that she can cut the meat into so that she can swallow it. She has powerful jaws made for breaking and chewing bone. Now, if you look into a cows mouth, you will see teeth that are made for grinding. The reason that they have to grind their food is because grains have a cellulose membrane that has to be broken for the food to be absorbed right. Dogs do not have the type of teeth that can break down that membrane. Cows also have the proper enzymes to start the digestion process of the grains. Enzymes are necessary for food digestion. The body produces the proper enzymes for the food that it eats. Remi does not make any enzymes to digest grains, fruits and vegetables. So, basically, anything other than meat, bones and organs goes thru Remi undigested. This food that she cannot digest, sits in her digestive tract making her system work over time trying to handle food that should not be there. That eventually will cause her to be unhealthy and will show up in various health problems.

Another thing about kibble is that it is so bad for the teeth. Even if you are feeding the absolute best kibble, no grains, vegetables, etc, you are still not feeding the best because the kibble does nothing for the teeth. When the kibble sits on the teeth, it rots and causes the breath to be bad, and causes the teeth to rot. I will feed my dogs kibble every once in a while, maybe once every 2 or 3 months, usually because I failed to get food out of the freezer. The last time that I fed them kibble, I was looking in Lucy's mouth, for some reason, and I wish that I had taken a picture of it. Her teeth were full of chewed up kibble. That kibble was just going to sit there and rot. Meat and bones just dont do that. Instead of rotting her teeth, the bones clean her teeth.

One other thing about feeding kibble, even the supposed best kibble. When dogs eat raw meat, bones and organs, they are getting all the nutrition that Mother Nature intended for them to get. When you feed an artificial food, the dog is getting what MAN thinks is best for the dog. I do not believe that man knows all there is to know about nutrition and how the body functions. You see it all the time in various ways. Puppies need omega 3's for growing brains, dogs need omega 3's for skin health, etc. The pet food industry picks up on all of the new nutrients that have been discovered, then they start adding this to their food. Why not feed raw and not have to worry about the artificial nutrients that the pet food industry is adding to the kibble? In raw meat, you get it the way and the proper amount for the dog. Its been that way for eons. Nothing new need be added.

Hope that all this helps. I am so proud of all the people on this forum that feed raw. I hope that you will become one of them! :D

Betty

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding poll:
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:44 pm 
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About the only thing I could add would be that, even if the kibble had exactly the same makeup as the raw food (which would be impossible) it would still be a food product, as opposed to the actual food itself. Just like the difference between a piece of chicken grilled in your yard, and a chicken McNugget. Chicken meal, fish meal, etc. is all the parts not salable to humans, ground up and dried... just doesn't compare to the real thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding poll:
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:53 pm 
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Something else I forgot all about.... We were outside yesterday and again this morning the poop and the heat make a horrible smell. With raw there is hardly any of either. We will be switching back once this bag is gone.

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding poll:
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:30 pm 
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Betty is definitely the person to talk to, she can tell you everything there is to know about raw. And Jim makes an excellent point. There is a difference between food and a food product. You will always get exponentially greater benefits if you feed whole food.

For the first year, I fed Sadie Innova Evo. It is very similar to Blue Buffalo, a premium kibble that is probably as good as it gets when it comes to dry food. But when Sadie went to Steve's for training, he was feeding raw, so she was on that for over a month. I'm a vegetarian, and even though I understood the benefits, I just couldn't bring myself to handling raw meat. So he tried to transition her back to kibble and she refused to eat for a couple days. I guess that is sort of a sign, my dog would just rather not eat than munch on kibble. I decided I'd give the whole freaky raw thing a try. It didn't take me long to get used to the meat and I've never looked back.

I'm extremely happy with Sadie's even energy, sleek coat and healthy teeth on raw. My mom used to brush our Corgi's teeth once a week and she still had plaque and discoloration. Sadie is 2.5 years old and her pearly whites are perfect. And Shannon is right about the clean up, dogs on raw process most of their food, so when they go to the bathroom it is smaller, dissolves quickly and barely smells.

I also think raw is far cheaper and more convenient than premium kibble. When I was feeding Innova, I had to go to a boutique pet store to buy it and I paid just under $2 a pound. Now I feed primarily chicken quarters, which I pick up at the HEB for $.89-$.99 per pound. If I actually wanted to make the 15 minute drive to Walmart, I could get it for about half that. I also add in beef liver when I remember to buy it and fed a bunch of free deer meat during hunting season. Occasionally I toss in eggs and kitchen scraps. You can get more complex than that and add in a variety of game, red meat and organs, but I know that even a plain chicken quarter is much healthier than kibble. And preparation is as easy as getting out a quarter and tossing it in her kennel.

My advice is to try it out. I think both you and Remi will be really happy it with.

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding poll:
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:44 pm 
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Yeah, I didnt go into that aspect of raw feeding. Didnt want my post to get 'too' long!!

Shannon is absolutely right. The reason that there is less poop is because the dog is digesting almost all of its food. Ah ha, maybe thats the way its supposed to be?? The dog that is fed vegetables and grain, cant digest that food, hence the only way for them to get rid of it is to poop it out. Dogs have a very acidic and short digestive tract. This allows them to take in the food, digest it and get rid of whats left in a short time. For dogs that are fed kibble with veggies and grains, they cant digest the food, so it sits there fermenting in the gut, hence becoming very stinky!! This will cause them to have more gas, and the stinky poops. A raw fed dogs poop should be small and not stinky and it will change, depending on what the dog has eaten.

Altho there are times that this doesnt apply, dogs that are raw fed dont have as much gas. Depending on the dog and what you are feeding it, the gas should be much less. Steve and Julie can tell horror stories about feeding javelina. And, when you switch foods, often, it will cause the dog to have more gas and it can be awful!! I dont notice my dogs having gas when I switch food, but I tend change their food often. On the whole, raw fed dogs have less gas because they are digesting their food.

One more added benefit along this line is that the dog will also have better breath. Partially because of not having kibble stuck in the teeth, but also because bad breath can come from the food in the gut that is not being digested.

So, if want a better smelling life with your dog, raw is certainly the way to go.

Betty

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding poll:
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 11:11 pm 
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There was a great deal on prime rib at the market, so I splurged and bought both of them they had. I cut the bones off one, and turned it into steaks I have marinating in jerk seasoning. I gave the ribs to Cannon and made him one content Lacy dog. Since we are having great (meaning under 100 degrees) weather, I sat outside with a drink as he spent almost an hour working one of the rib bones. One of those 'finer things in life' moments.

I'm saving the other roast for some time when I can cook it, nice and rare, for Julie. :))

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding poll:
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:50 am 
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Now that sounds good. Who is spoled more?

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding poll:
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 8:18 am 
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I got some great deals a couple of weeks ago. I meant to post them for others, but forgot. HEB had pork tenderloin on sale for a dollar a pound. You could get 2 of them. If I had more time, I would have gone back and gotten more, but my time in town is pretty scarce. I also found some good deals at Albertsons on pork. Brisket should be going on sale soon. Watch for it to be under a dollar a pound until the fourth of July. If I can find anything for around a dollar a pound and it has good meat on it, I buy quite a bit of it. Sometimes, I get all that they have. I got some good pork roasts last week. I cut the meat off of them to a point, then let one of the dogs chew the meat off of the bone. Chicken is my stand by, but I am always watching for cheap meat. I also buy the meat that has been marked down because of the date. I just make sure that it gets frozen or used right away. My dogs are picky and will only eat stinky meat if it is really, really old, like sitting out in the sun for several days! :-o

I hope to get to a meat wholesaler in Austin the next time I go down there. Since all of my elk and deer is finally gone, I've got to get something cheaper than what I am finding right now. I plan on calling the wholesalers in Austin before I go down there. If I can find some good buys, I will let you others in that area know so I can get some for ya'll too.

Jim talking about Cannon chewing the bone brought to mind one other thing about raw feeding that I like. I sit and watch the dogs eat now, one for enjoyment and one to make sure that one doesnt steal anothers food. I enjoy watching them eat now. I cant explain why watching them eat raw food is more enjoyable than watching them eat kibble, but it is. I gives me a few minutes with them that is quiet and they are not demanding anything of me.

Betty

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding poll:
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:41 am 
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Betty L. wrote:
My dogs are picky and will only eat stinky meat if it is really, really old, like sitting out in the sun for several days! :-o
I had forgotten to take food out of the freezer last night, and Cannon got impatient, so he dug up part of a game hen he had buried two days ago. Yeesh! I actually took it away, sealed it in plastic, and tossed it out. I'm sure the neighbors could smell it!

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding poll:
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:37 am 
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Betty/Jim,
How much per dog do you feed raw? for example how many chicken quarters per dog? and how many lbs of meat per lb of dog?

thanks
Rebecca


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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding poll:
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:07 pm 
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3-4% of adult body weight - for Cannon that's between a pound and pound and a half. He's been eating that amount, give or take, since I got him at 8 weeks.

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding poll:
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:39 pm 
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I used to feed the dogs a pound and a half, but they got too heavy on that, so I cut them back to a pound. I go from a pound to a pound and a quarter now. One chicken quarter will make a good meal, if it is fairly large and most of them are. Every once in a while, you will find smaller ones, but they are pretty much the same size.

Rebecca, and Chris, and anyone else that is interested, I have all the info that you need to start raw feeding. You do have to know what you are doing. It can get kinda overwhelming at first, but once you get used to it, its as simple as putting out a cup or two of kibble!! If you want, let me know and I will email the info to you. And, if anyone ever has any questions, I am always happy to help, as is Jim, I'm sure. Raw feeding and changing the dog food world, one dog at a time is my 'thing'!!

Betty

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"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did
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"You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something in your life!"
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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding poll:
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:52 pm 
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Betty, I'd be interested in the information if you have it available to email out. DJ and I have been discussing it, and I'm hoping he will agree to give it a try after we move (next month).

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