Register    Login    Forum    Search    FAQ

Board index » Dr. Dog » Alternative Health & Feeding




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 6:42 pm 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:27 am
Posts: 2456
Location: SoCal
Betty, I especially thought you'd enjoy this and might want to talk to them about getting your registry involved, but I know there are plenty on here that are big fans of holistic care. I was doing some bay competition research and ended up on this Catahoula breeder's page. I think they do a pretty good job of explaining their approach to raising puppies, http://www.bconnex.net/~langevin/html/n ... eeder.html That has got to be one of the hardest parts of doing that as a breeder, explaining it in a way that doesn't scare people away and encourages buyers to continue your practices. Apparently they are a member of the Natural Rearing Breeders Association as well. I haven't gotten to read through the site at all, but I thought some of the experts might be interested in giving an opinion on it, http://www.thewholedog.org/NRBA.html.

_________________
"You must be a very small minority no matter who you hang around with. Maybe you should start a magazine, Vegetarian Hog Dogging Monthly, find some like-minded individuals."
- Inspiration for my next project from TBH

True Blue Lacys: http://www.truebluelacys.com
More Lacy Pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/julieanna/sets/72157605027566732/


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:14 pm 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:02 pm
Posts: 385
All I can say is, with Betty not breeding anymore, someone needs to fill the void with naturally bred and raised working Lacys. There is no doubt in my mind that a Lacy raised that way can strut its stuff even more in the woods. Of course maybe some of the rest of you are already doing that and just aren't as vocal about it?

The science is increasingly clear, both on the benefits of raw feeding, and the harm that can be caused by over-vaccinating and the constant use of chemicals. Sorry to be so radical about it all, but seeing what is done to some dogs just ticks <npi> me off.

I'll get off the soapbox now. Lord knows I'm tall enough without it! ;)

_________________
Jim Browning
and Cannon


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:22 pm 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:02 pm
Posts: 385
P.S. I'm not sure that this study has been posted here before. Probably has because I'm sure Betty has read it. Anyway, this talks bout a study at Purdue that really shows the problems vaccines can cause, particularly when used at a very young age, when the pup is still receiving immunity from its mother. One of the reasons I get so riled up is that Cannon had to have a tumor removed that I believe was the direct result of vaccination.

http://www.dogsadversereactions.com/scienceVaccineDamage.html

_________________
Jim Browning
and Cannon


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 8:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:04 pm
Posts: 1677
Location: Burnet County
Jim,
I am not a fan of vaccines. We only vaccinate the pups we have to..meaning the ones we aren't keeping and their new owners insist upon it. We do get the rabies shots tho.
We raw feed along with grain depending on the time of year and availability of meat.
We would be strictly raw except we have quiet a few hunting dogs
(not all are in the breeding program) as well as horses and children (4) so it's not always affordable for us to feed raw.

I also prefer to treat fleas ticks and parasites (internal) with natural or homeopathic rems.
That is with all of our critters. Had our youngest mustang @ the vets day before yesterday because he is looking scrawny and the vet checked him for worms..couldnt find but 2 eggs! Said it was amazing since you can almost always find a worm or two or a bunch of eggs even in the best kept race horses!
That is the wonder of an all natural approach. ;)

_________________
M.D.Brooks Founding Member & Breeders Committee Chair
Bayed Blue...Bayed True...That's A Lacy Dog
If You can't keep up with the Lacy Dog...stay on the porch!
http://www.nationallacydog.org/index.html
http://www.lacyhuntingdogs.bravehost.com


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:02 pm 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:46 pm
Posts: 4640
Julie,

I did enjoy the article. If anyone was to go back and read some of my posts, it would be basically what I have been saying on forums for 3 years now. I love this group of people because so many of them do listen, understand and try to do many of the things that I preach about. I am so glad that Jim is here to offer his advice also. I know that many on this forum feed raw, us less vaccines and chemicals because of articles that I have posted. Many here know a lot about the good way to raise dogs, like Mis and Julie, but their 'things' are more working and genetics. Mine is pretty much healthy alternatives to bad medicinal practices on our beloved animals.

Jim,

I'm pretty sure that I have at least posted links to that article, if not it has been an oversite. It is a very good article that pretty much hits the nail on the head. It amazes me that so much of the information came from Merck itself, who is one of the leading players in vaccine profits. Then, the vet colleges are teaching their students, (from the Merck Manual) that repetitive vaccination is dangerous and the very vets who are treating our pets, continue to take in money from yearly vaccines.

I have so many bookmarks on vaccine and chemical stuff that I sometimes have a very hard time finding what I want. I am still looking for an article that goes a bit more into the genetic damage that vaccines can do. If you ever run across it, let me know.

I lost a dog from injection site cancer. I could never prove it, but I know it. Shannon has a dog that has the anemia stuff (cant remember the actual name of it right now) that is mentioned in the post that Jim put up. Julie and I are pretty sure that Sadie has vaccine induced arthritis. I know that Chris Franks dog Roush, had an allergic reaction to his rabies vaccine. The vets said that it wasnt, but the info on the internet sure didnt agree with what the vets were saying. Roush got his rabies booster and sometime after that, Chris had to take him in because his head was swollen, cant remember all the particulars, but it had to have been the vaccine. The vets said that he must have been bitten by a bug. Then, there is Cannon who had a tumor removed. I dont do math, but thats a pretty high ratio of people who are active on this forum who have had adverse reactions to vaccines.

I should get off of my soap box also, now. But, thanks to Jim and to Julie for posting something that didnt come from me!! Maybe more people will sit up and pay attention! :)

Betty

_________________
Betty

"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did
better."
Maya Angelou

"You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something in your life!"
Winston Churchill

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bjleek/


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 10:09 pm 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:46 pm
Posts: 4640
Julie,

I am going to see if I can still join the natural breeders group. Maybe I can, then I can pass on what I learn.

I wasnt as adamant about my pups going to homes that would raw feed and minimally vaccinate as I would have liked to have been, but I think that if I had stayed with breeding and as I got more comfortable with the breeding, placing pups, etc. I would have gotten there. I think that eventually, I would have gotten a following looking for my pups as others have for their working dogs. I know lots of people who are as strong on placing pups in homes that follow natural rearing as Mike, Mis, Steve and Amber are about placing their pups in working homes. It's a little hard on the vaccine thing, because the drug industry and doctors do such a bang up good job of convincing the public that if you dont vaccinate, you dont love your animal.

Oops, I was going to get off of my soap box and I really am now. Besides, its bed time!!

Betty

_________________
Betty

"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did
better."
Maya Angelou

"You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something in your life!"
Winston Churchill

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bjleek/


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:37 am 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:02 pm
Posts: 385
When I took Cannon to a vet the first time, thinking I needed to establish a relationship with one in case something ever happened, I provided a stool sample to check for worms. They wanted to de-worm him, even though they hadn't yet checked the sample, which of course came out clean. His blood work was, as they said, stupendous. The next vet (when he developed the tumor) wanted to vaccinate him again, because his previous vaccines were given so young the mother's immunity would have prevented establishing his own immunity, at the same time they are letting me know about the benign tumor that is usually caused by "immune response".

It's interesting that they are putting out rabies vaccines to be eaten by wild animals here in Arizona, and exposure through food would be a far better way to vaccinate a dog, because it would go through the normal process of exposure instead of going directly into the blood stream. But that method is only available to wild animals, not our dogs. sigh...

_________________
Jim Browning
and Cannon


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 12:47 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:04 pm
Posts: 1677
Location: Burnet County
Doesn't make much sense does it Jim...
You would think that if that works for wolves, coyotes and fox that it would work fine for dogs huh..

_________________
M.D.Brooks Founding Member & Breeders Committee Chair
Bayed Blue...Bayed True...That's A Lacy Dog
If You can't keep up with the Lacy Dog...stay on the porch!
http://www.nationallacydog.org/index.html
http://www.lacyhuntingdogs.bravehost.com


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 9:20 am
Posts: 1186
Location: San Antonio
Jim,

We may never breed Addy again due to her auto immune disease she got. Her red blood cells were attacking her white blood cells. In the Vet's book we looked it up and one of the causes it had listed was part of the 7 way vaccine. So we will no longer vaccinate except for Rabbies, and I do the 3 year which is good for me. I know a couple gave their dog the rattlesnake shot and the puppy died with in days of getting it.
We are feeding Raw only and when Lolita gets older and proves to me she works a little more, I know she has the drive and everytime we have taken her out she gets better and better we might breed her, but it will be at least a year if not longer. She is lean and deep chested and can run like there is no tomorrow, I would love to try her on cows, but since Alex hunts hogs with her I don't want to confuse her. Seeing a cow in the field and not being able to find any hogs she would want to go play with the cow and forget the hog and that could be a problem.

_________________
Alex & Shannon


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 11:07 am 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:02 pm
Posts: 385
Good to hear how many are taking the more natural route. With efforts to strengthen the working nature of the breed being combined with natural rearing, just think of the great dogs that will be produced.

_________________
Jim Browning
and Cannon


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 4:37 pm 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:46 pm
Posts: 4640
The animal world is way ahead of the human world in vaccines. Ya'll excuse me for getting off of animals for a minute and posting about people, but this needs to be said. Then, I will get back to the dogs.

The medical community is pushing more and more vaccines on people. The vaccine for the swine flu, is almost ready to go. That means that no testing has been done on it. I wont even go into all the things that are already wrong with the vaccine itself, but I do want every one to know that there are plans in the works for it to be a legally required vaccine for everyone. When our govenment starts making me take a vaccine that has not been tested, is not necessary and is not even a bad flu, then all hell is going to break loose.

The World Health Organization is pushing this flu as pandemic. Pandemic is a scary word. The people in charge can use it to scare us into thinking that a pandemic flu is a flu that is going to kill hundreds of thousands of people. Pandemic merely means country or world wide. Of course, its going to be world wide, everything is now days. Why is this flu being pushed as pandemic. Cause there is money to be made off of it. End of lecture.

Now, back to dogs. Diseases kill our dogs, our pets. Vaccines do too. They also make our pets sick and are responsible for many, many problems.

I have Lucy who will never have another vaccine, unless I get really squirmy over the rabies. Rabies is a real threat, especially for our lacy dogs. Lucy has had 2 rabies shots and she should be good for the rest of her life. As it stands right now, she will not get another rabies until the 7 years have passed that the rabies has been proven to be good. Larry had a vaccine from the breeder, then never had any boosters. He has had one rabies. Abe has had one rabies. I may get each of them a booster on the rabies, but havent decided yet.

All workers who deal with dogs have to have rabies vaccines. Vets have to have them, govt trackers have to have them. But, do the humans have to have boosters every year, or every three years? Nope. They have to have the antibodies levels tested every year and if those are high enough, they dont need boosters. Jimmy has never had a booster shot. Jimmy goes out in helicopters and spreads rabies vaccines in food, just as Jim described. Now, if they can control rabies in the wild, by a much more natural means, why do our dogs have to be revaccinated every 3 years? Ah, you guessed it, again, money and fear mongering.

There is a study underway being done by Jean Dodds. They are working on proving that the rabies vaccine is good for more than three years. Right now, they have proven that the rabies vaccine lasts for 7 years. For more info go to: http://www.rabieschallengefund.org/

The absolute best thing that a person can do for their pets is to become educated about pet foods, poisons (usually marketed as chemicals) and vaccines. Then, and only then, can you make a decision about whether your pup or dog or cat needs all the stuff that we have been taught is necessary for good health, but in actuality is killing our pets.

Betty

_________________
Betty

"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did
better."
Maya Angelou

"You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something in your life!"
Winston Churchill

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bjleek/


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 9:26 pm 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 4:02 pm
Posts: 385
:ymapplause: ^:)^ :ymapplause: ^:)^

_________________
Jim Browning
and Cannon


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:23 pm 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:27 am
Posts: 2456
Location: SoCal
Betty, when you're approach rabies from a booster perspective rather than a yearly thing, how often do you think it should be done?

From everything we've discussed about vaccines, I've decided to wait on another rabies shot for Sadie. I think she had one right when I got her, and maybe a second one, but between the aggression issues and her funky limping, I didn't get it done again. I'm not sure if it is connected or not, but I also haven't seen any issues with her limping since last year, even on weeks we had two agility classes and then hunted on the weekend. I guess it could be something else, but the only thing that seems to have changed is the rabies shot, and an extra year of raw feeding.

I don't know if I'd feel totally comfortable going vaccine free yet, but if I ever got another dog, I would want a very minimal schedule, maybe one rabies, and feed raw from the very beginning.

_________________
"You must be a very small minority no matter who you hang around with. Maybe you should start a magazine, Vegetarian Hog Dogging Monthly, find some like-minded individuals."
- Inspiration for my next project from TBH

True Blue Lacys: http://www.truebluelacys.com
More Lacy Pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/julieanna/sets/72157605027566732/


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:59 pm 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:46 pm
Posts: 4640
Because of the rabies things and our dogs doing what they do, I will get the rabies and would certainly never tell anyone not to get one. In the state of Texas, you only have to get one every 3 years. I know a vet in San Angelo, that because he boards dogs for various reasons, expects his patients to have a rabies every year. That is just ridiculous. Its a crime, as far as I am concerned. I know a vet that vaccinated an old dog, when the owner was standing there telling him that she didnt want it done. He stuck the dog with the vaccine, and said "well, I just gave the vaccine and there's nothing that you can do about it now". Wrong, I would be telling everyone in town what that jerk had done!!

Anyway, back to your question-a dog should have a rabies sometime before its first birthday. Then, it is supposed to have a booster, a year later. I have read that the first shot is all that they need, but I havent done enough research yet to make up my mind on whether to give the second shot or not. Then, under Texas law, the dog doesnt need another booster for 3 years. If you dont want to risk getting the booster and you want to feel some protection, you can ask your vet to do a check for anti-bodies. Its not coming to my mind what its called right now, but it tests for the anti-bodies in the dogs system. Its not fool proof and its more expensive that just having the rabies shot. One day this week, I will post the info about the anti-bodies, etc.

It takes a while to get to where you can understand and can deal with no vaccines. Its just not as easy as switching to raw feeding. We have been so indoctrinated that vaccines save lives, that it takes a real mind change to switch the thinking. I have a friend who is very active in the anti-vaccine world and she and I email back and forth all the time. When you see all the crap that is going on in children that IS caused by vaccines, it makes it easier to change your mindset. Children are dying daily, being paralyzed, getting autism, etc and its all in the name of 'keeping them healthy'. We have been given a bill of goods that is full of crap and they continue to vaccinate more and more. There is nothing 'scientific' that proves that vaccines cause autism, but that New Jersey has the highest rate of autism and also the most state required vaccines tells me more than its just a conincidence. The rate of autism has gone up at the same rate of required vaccines. They are ruining our children and killing our pets.

Betty

_________________
Betty

"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did
better."
Maya Angelou

"You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something in your life!"
Winston Churchill

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bjleek/


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 10:50 am 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:48 pm
Posts: 2226
Location: Alto, TX
While we're on the subject, I have a question. We chose not to give our dogs the bordatella (kennel cough) vaccine. Last year, Aggie came down with a cough, and, within a few hours, she was so weak she couldn't even hold her head up. I took her temperature, and it was at 105*. It was Saturday night, so we took her to en emergency vet, who gave her antibiotics and a bag of fluids. The temp was down within a few hours, but if we hadn't done something or hadn't been home, I think we could have lost her.

We found out the next day that our neighbor's dog had been at the vet for the same thing, so that's where she got it. Also, before she had symptoms, Aggie had apparently spread it to several of Aaron, Lance, and Heath's dogs. It almost killed Lance's old dog Antonio (who has since passed away).

The point is, we now vaccinate our dogs against Bordatella. Do you think we shouldn't?

_________________
“We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare and love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It’s the best deal man has ever made.”
M. Facklam


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Board index » Dr. Dog » Alternative Health & Feeding


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron