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 Post subject: primer on vaccines
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:44 am 
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I will be posting info on the different diseases that dogs are vaccinated for. I cant do it all at once, but will take one disease at a time and will post relevant info on each. I will also include info on what vaccines really are, the benefit and the side effects.

What I really want is for each and every one of you to have enough knowledge on the subject that you can make up your own mind which vaccine you think that you need to give your dog or whether they need any at all. I cannot tell anyone what kind of care that they should give their dog. If I told them that they didnt need a certain vaccine and then the dog died from that disease, that person would never forgive me and I would never forgive myself. I will always say what I do for my dogs, but that is my choice. Everyone who reads this forum must get to their choice on their own. Hopefully, I will be able to help them make an informed decision that will be the best for them and for their dogs health.

So, check back. My bookmarks are a mess and some things are not even bookmarked, so I will have to find them on the wonderful mass of info on the internet. But, I will find it and post it.

Betty

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Maya Angelou

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 Post subject: Re: primer on vaccines
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:16 pm 
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Only thing you need to really worry about in East Texas is parvo, distemper, and rabies. Not sure about other parts of Texas....


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 Post subject: Re: primer on vaccines
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:00 pm 
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A vaccine can be a great thing, or it can be the worst thing ever for the animal. How do you determine the difference? By reading and educating yourself. There is a ton of info on the internet which both support vaccines or support no vaccines. My info will hopefully be helpful for those reading this forum to make their own decision.

Vaccines have become much more than they were ever intended to be. Vaccines were developed to help people or animals have a better chance at living thru a disease that is usually fatal. Vaccines are now being given for things that it is rare to die from. We will look at those diseases later.

Vaccines are supposed to booster the immune system. However, it is becoming more and more evident that vaccines instead wear the immune system down. One of the reasons for this is the way that vaccines are administered. Natural immunity comes from being exposed to the germ that is taken in usually thru the mucous membranes. When you inject these germs into the body thru a needle, the body sees a whole different situation and reacts differently to it. There are some vaccines, such as bordetella that can be given thru the nose, so that is at least being given in a more natural way.

Vaccines actually wear the immune system down. What the vaccine actually does is cause the body to be in attack mode at all times. Just think about it. You are injecting a germ into the body. The body sees this as something that it must fight. And, fight it, it does. Forever. Then it begins to open the host up to many different auto-immune diseases or just plain ole disease.

from the website http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/VACCINE1.HTM

Charles Loops, DVM: "After more than twenty years of practicing veterinary medicine, I am observing chronic diseases that begin much earlier than before. Cancer before five years of age in dogs and cats was a rarity, but now it is not unusual to see fatal cancers in two and three year old animals. And the incidence or number of cases is definitely increasing. While poor breeding practices, poor commercial diets and other environmental factors play their part, I believe it is the practice of vaccinating an animal repeatedly, with multiple vaccinations throughout their lifespan that factors the most. We have genetically weakened our companions with this practice. A normal dog or cat living to twelve years of age will receive at least twenty and possibly thirty vaccinations during their lifetime. Fifteen or so of these shots will have four to seven disease fractions present in each vaccination.

In all of this, balance in nature has been lost to the pharmaceutical-medical complex's philosophy, propelled in great part by monetary factors, leading us to believe that all vaccinations are beneficial.

Risk of Exposure should be the main guideline for consideration of whether to vaccinate and what to vaccinate against. If your cats are indoor only, or if your dogs' outside activities are on a leash or within a fenced area under supervision, there is little risk. The other considerations for a vaccine's use are its proven safety, its effectiveness, and whether the disease so serious or life-threatening that vaccinating is necessary. Remember, VACCINES ARE NOT HARMLESS. Only vaccinate if the threat is real. "

Betty

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"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did
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Maya Angelou

"You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something in your life!"
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 Post subject: Re: primer on vaccines
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:22 pm 
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Vaccines were first started back in England in the late 1700's. The first vaccine was developed from cowpox to protect people from the deadly small pox. From that point we have come to giving vaccines for things that can kill to things that are nothing more than a slight inconvenience.

Vaccines are made from either live modified virus microorganisms or from killed virus microorganisms. There are vaccines for bacterial infections, but most are against viral infections. The bacterial vaccines are not long lasting and have to be given frequently to give protection. Once you catch a viral disease and get over it, you have immunity to it. Bacterial infections are not like that.

When a vaccine is given, the immune system recognizes an invader and sends out antigens. In turn, these antigens send out antibodies which actually fight the disease. The antibodies stay around after that, ready to fight again, if needed. The body also produces memory cells which retain the imprint of the disease and these outlive the antibodies to give lasting immunity.

Under natural circumstances, the body is exposed to one disease at a time. Even with one invader in the system, the body is spending much energy to fight the disease, thus creating a lowered immune system while the body is making antigens, antibodies and memory cells. Then, when the immune system is bombarded with multiple diseases, as most vaccines are given today, the body really suffers. This gives other diseases a chance to get a toehold in the body that it would not have had before.

Also in the vaccine is stuff that is called adjuvants. Some of the adjuvants are put there to further help activate the immune system and some of them are there simply as preservatives. These adjuvants can be very dangerous. Mercury, which is listed as one of the 10 most poisonous substances by the CDC was used as a preservative for many years and is still in some vaccines. (And yes, its the same mercury that they put in your mouth as mercury fillings.) When they replaced mercury, they found another good substance to use as a preservative, aluminum. Brilliant. There are many, many other dangerous substances put in vaccines as adjuvants, but I wont go into all of them here. You can read more about adjuvants at:http://www.whale.to/vaccines/ingredients.html

Then, there are the things in vaccines that just shouldnt be there. These are the accidents that happen in the lab where the vaccine is being created. As if the vaccine itself wasnt enough to be scary, they add the adjuvants, then they have disasters in the lab. http://k9joy.com/dogarticles/parvo.php

For many years, puppies have been vaccinated when they were about 6 weeks old. Slowly, this is changing as people learn about the natural immunity that the pups get from their mother. A pup can be protected from disease for several weeks, even after they have quit nursing. Altho it is not known for each specific dog when the mothers immunity wears off, it is at this time that you need to know about the specific diseases and whether you are going to vaccinate the pup or not. IF you vaccinate before the mothers immunity wears off, you are wasting your money and giving the pup the dangers of the vaccine and not a bit of protection as the mothers antibodies will attack and destroy the microorganisms that have been injected into the pup.

Betty

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Betty

"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did
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Maya Angelou

"You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something in your life!"
Winston Churchill

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bjleek/


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 Post subject: Re: primer on vaccines
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:12 am 
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Keep the good information coming Betty!

For anyone that would like to share some of this with friends, we put together an article based on Betty's first post. There are some additional quotes from vets and such in it. Check it off if you're interested, and forward it to other dog lovers, this is important stuff to be educated about:

http://workinglacys.wordpress.com/2009/ ... -vaccines/

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True Blue Lacys: http://www.truebluelacys.com
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 Post subject: Re: primer on vaccines
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:57 am 
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Thanks for putting it on the blog, Julie. Perhaps we can reach even more people that way.

Betty

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"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did
better."
Maya Angelou

"You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something in your life!"
Winston Churchill

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bjleek/


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 Post subject: Re: primer on vaccines
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:17 pm 
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We definitely will. Your articles on feeding raw deer and caring for a cleft palate puppy are extremely popular. I bet this vaccine article will draw in a lot of people too. So thanks for contributing Betty!

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"You must be a very small minority no matter who you hang around with. Maybe you should start a magazine, Vegetarian Hog Dogging Monthly, find some like-minded individuals."
- Inspiration for my next project from TBH

True Blue Lacys: http://www.truebluelacys.com
More Lacy Pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/julieanna/sets/72157605027566732/


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 Post subject: Re: primer on vaccines
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:51 pm 
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I am glad to do it and also glad that the people on this forum are interested in learning and making their own decisions for their dogs, instead of just going with what their vet may advocate. We all need to learn to make decisions for our dogs and ourselves and most of all, our children. We cannot depend on others, or our government, to dictate what is good for us.

Betty

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Betty

"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did
better."
Maya Angelou

"You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something in your life!"
Winston Churchill

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bjleek/


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 Post subject: Re: primer on vaccines
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:41 pm 
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We're lucky to have you, Betty!

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and Cannon


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 Post subject: Re: primer on vaccines
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:50 pm 
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Thanks, Jim and Julie. And, I am glad to have people who are able to back me up!!

Betty

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"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did
better."
Maya Angelou

"You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something in your life!"
Winston Churchill

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bjleek/


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 Post subject: Re: primer on vaccines
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:38 pm 
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Back in the old days, vets gave booster shots every 6 months to a year. Now, the veterinary schools are realizing that boosters are not necessary, dont do anything to booster the immune system and in general, just are harmful for your pet and waste your money. There are many vets out there that are still telling people that their dogs are due for their booster shot, but an educated pet owner knows what is necessary and what is not necessary for their pets. The following is a statement by Dr. Ron Schultz, PhD., School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Wisconsin-Madison. "A practice that was started many years ago and that lacks scientific validity or verification is annual vaccinations. Almost without exception there is no immunologic requirement for annual revaccination. Immunity to viruses persists for years or for the life of the animal."

There are those people who advocate no vaccines. Then, there are people who advocate giving boosters only if titer levels tell them that the immunity warrants them. A titer test is done by many to determine if the immunity against a particular disease. This is done by taking one ounce of blood. The blood is then diluted by one half and checked for antibodies. This is done until no antibodies show up. The last dilution that shows antibodies is what is shown on the titer test. A titer test shows only that there is immunity for the tested disease in the blood. If a titer test shows that there are no antibodies, there can still be immunity. There are other ways that the body has immunity, but the titer test is for blood only. There is also cellular immunity, which includes the 'memory cells' that are ready to send out antibodies, should the body be infected by disease. The healthy body has numerous ways to fight infection, the keyword here being 'healthy'. Vaccines do not create a healthy body.

Another disconcerting thing about vaccines is that they are given as a one size fits all. A Chihuahua being given any vaccine will be given the same dosage as a Great Dane! I know of no other instances which call for something to be injected into the body that size and weight are not taken into account. To even the most uneducated person, this would have to seem terribly wrong.

There is a strong movement among knowledgeable people and veterinarians to never vaccinate an ill animal. This is another thing that just stands to reason, but is just beginning to be indicated by the veterinary community. The vaccine viruses stress the body and can trigger a latent disease or immunological disease to come forth. I cannot stress enough the importance of not vaccinating a sick animal. If you have a pet that has a disease that is compromising its immune system or an older pet, do not vaccinate that pet. Please go to: http://www.dogs4dogs.com/blog/2009/04/2 ... dogs-cats/ for lots of information on why not to vaccinate sick or elderly dogs. There is also information in this article as to how to get an exemption for the rabies vaccine if you feel that your dog should not be vaccinated. One more note- vaccine labels state that vaccines should only be given to 'healthy animals'. Even the vaccine companies know not to give vaccines to sick animals.

To reach the decision to not vaccinate at all takes a while in coming. I still am not to the point that I cannot vaccinate for rabies. I will not vaccinate but the first dose tho. It took me a long time to come to the point that I would not vaccinate at all. I do not expect people to read this information and all of a sudden stop vaccinating their pets. I do believe, however, that with education, one can come to the point that they will use very few vaccines. Catherine O'Driscoll states: we at Canine Health Concern do not advocate vaccines of any kind. Vaccines are causing far more death, disease and destruction than they have ever prevented. However, you have a RIGHT to an informed choice. That RIGHT is violated if you don't even look at the information made available to you. Our pets have no choices - only the RIGHT that you do your duty and look at the evidence before forcing any procedure on them. Catherines website: http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/k9health/www ... utCHC.html

Betty

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Betty

"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did
better."
Maya Angelou

"You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something in your life!"
Winston Churchill

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bjleek/


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 Post subject: Re: primer on vaccines
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:15 pm 
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I agree. My vet recommended not to neuter my male when he was undergoing treatment for a severely broken front leg from a car hitting him because he said it was too much body stress for him and he didn't need the hormones to suddenly go away during treatment. Turns out he had to have the steel pins in his leg one more month longer than expected because he didn't heal as fast as the vet was hoping he would.


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 Post subject: Re: primer on vaccines
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:29 am 
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It's a heart-wrenching 'weighing of the risks' choice either way. Cannon had been vaccinated (it's a really tough choice for a breeder to forego vaccines!), and had a tumor removed that I believe was caused by vaccination. I have chosen not to allow the vets to give him any more vaccines, despite the pressure they have applied. Because of this, I kept him away from things like dog parks as a pup, because I didn't want him exposed too much too soon. Now that he is older and his immune system is at full swing, I'm not worried about him snifiing the butts and feces of recently vaccinated dogs. That sort of gradual exposure through the nose and mouth lets his full immune system protect him. I'm pretty sure a Titer would show he has been exposed to the commonly immunized diseases.

Thanks for an absolutely awesome primer Betty!

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 Post subject: Re: primer on vaccines
 Post Posted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:22 pm 
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Jim,

You are most welcome and I always appreciate your input.

Betty

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"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did
better."
Maya Angelou

"You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something in your life!"
Winston Churchill

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bjleek/


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 Post subject: Re: primer on vaccines
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:42 am 
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There are several groups who have guidelines for vaccinating your dog. The main ones are the American Animal Hospital Association (AAHA) and the American Veterinary Medical Association (AVMA). These groups do studies on vaccines and publish their findings. The vet schools also publish their recommendations.

The AAHA publishes guidelines for core, non-core, and non-recommendedvaccines. The difference in some of their recommended vaccines has to do with what type of vaccine should be used. The vaccines come in killed virus, modified live virus, recombinants, and vaccines for bacterias. The rabies vaccine is always a killed virus. The recombinants are indicated by a little r in front of the name of the vaccine. These are a newer form of vaccine. They are made a little differently and are supposed to be not so dangerous to the immune system. Bacteria vaccines need to be given more often than viral vaccines because the body doesnt create antibodies to bacteria and you can get bacterial infections over and over again.

Core vaccines are vaccines that are recommended by most all professionals in the allopathic veterinary world. Non-core are vaccines that can be recommended, depending on the area in which you live and the life that your dog lives. Non-recommended vaccines are just that, not recommended because those vaccines are either not approved, ineffective or unsafe.

The core vaccines that are recommended by most groups are the Canine Parvovirus (modified live virus), Canine Distemper (MLV), rCanine Distemper, Canine Adenovirues-2(MLV), Rabies 1-year(killed) and Rabies 3-year(killed). Even with the fore mentioned vaccines, it is still important to consider each dog and the life that it lives before vaccinating.

The AVMA states: Discuss with your veterinarian your pet's lifestyle, access to other animals, and travel to other geographic locations, since these factors affect your pet's risk of exposure to disease. Not all pets should be vaccinated with all vaccines just because these vaccines are available.

The duration of immunity is also something to be taken into consideration. The DOI depends on different things, but one of the most important things that you need to know about DOI is that some DOI merely depends on what is printed on the label from the vaccine manufacturer. The best way to determine DOI for you dog is to have titer levels done. The DOI on the rabies vaccine has been proven to be 7 years and there is a study being done to prove how long the rabies vaccine really lasts. People who work around animals, such as vets, vet assistants, government trackers, etc. all have to take the rabies vaccine. The difference between people and your dog is that after the first shot, titer levels are done to determine immunity instead requiring a shot every three years. One particular vet that I have read about has been having titer levels done for 20 years and she has never needed another shot. Interesting that we have to shoot our dogs with more virus every 3 years to abide by the law.

Betty

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Betty

"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did
better."
Maya Angelou

"You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something in your life!"
Winston Churchill

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bjleek/


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