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 Post subject: Re: What the heck?
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 7:45 pm 
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I am not impuning these ranchers integrity at all. My question is what is the benchmark for them to register a dog with nlda or for anyone who gets one of their dogs to register it?

Registeries have always been for profit, that being said there is susppose to be a certain amount of integrity that is susppose to go with it. Its a sad state when you can not trust the keepers of the linage to be honest.

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 Post subject: Re: What the heck?
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 7:48 pm 
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They have to be inspected and have the required pedigree same as anyone else. What is so hard about that?

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 Post subject: Re: What the heck?
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 8:02 pm 
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I dont know of anyone else who can provide their own pedigree and that be acceptable. I dont think any of the major registeries would ever accept a pure bred dog that hasnt had a history of registered parentage. They would have closed the books after a certain date and that would be that. I realize we have small numbers and I guess the books are open, but the inspection process doesnt require these unregistered animals to at least be dna tested? Its hard to believe that a look and someones word is enough to get your animals registered. Seems like we're missing something.

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 Post subject: Re: What the heck?
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 8:04 pm 
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As I understand it, dogs that were not registered when Marlo took over, were inspected and taken into the LGDR, werent they? So, things are not any different if the NLDA does the same thing. To get a larger and a better gene pool, we have to have better breeders with better dogs. Just because a dog has a piece of paper, doesnt mean anything if their are no constraints put on the breeders.

Rachael, you are such great, intelligent young person. I continue to be impressed with your insight into matters. The lacy breed would be so much better off if there had been more people who understood breeding for working ability, but also concerned about standards. My hat is once again, off to you!

Betty

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 Post subject: Re: What the heck?
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 8:36 pm 
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If NO registry ever had open books, it would be imposable to have a registry at all. The registry will eventually be closed. Right now it is open.

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 Post subject: Re: What the heck?
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 8:38 pm 
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Cute pups...........


Saw the pup that my buddy got. Good looking dog, getting big fast. It has very min. white on its face.


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 Post subject: Re: What the heck?
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:10 pm 
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Just to be clear, when I asked that question on how you know whether or not your dogs are purebred, it was rhetorical and getting at the very thing Betty brought up. Inspections and a pedigree were exactly how the LGDR registered dogs and will still register dogs. They are an open registry. But we have a much more detailed and extensive breed standard for our inspections.

If there was a DNA test for Lacys, we would require it. But no such thing exists. And if someone did have the resources to create one, what dogs would you base it off of?

How do you think the first Lacy was registered in 1976 by the ARF? Or in the late 1980s by the LGDR? Or all the dogs they recruited in the 2000s? Lacy are not Beagles, registration didn't become popular until very recently, primarily due to breeders wanting to charge higher prices for the State Dog. There are many purebred working Lacys that were never registered. And there are many "Lacys" registered based solely on the fact that they were blue.

So given the reality of the situation, what is the missing step?

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 Post subject: Re: What the heck?
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:16 pm 
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And Kevin, that is a serious question at the end of that post. Given the reality of the Lacy breed, of it's history and current state, what do you see as the missing step in the inspection and registration process?

In my opinion, the only missing step is a required standardized test of working ability. Unfortunately, given the size and resources of our organization at the moment, we can't set up a Deutsch Drahthaar style test just yet, http://www.vdd-gna.org/testing_program.php. We're trying to address this through the approved breeder program, but the end goal should be to have that required for every single Lacy that is bred.

You seem awfully worried about papers, but you never talk about proven performance. This breed was developed to work, that was defining characteristic of the breed for over 100 years, but you never bring up a purebred Lacy's working ability. Why is that?

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"You must be a very small minority no matter who you hang around with. Maybe you should start a magazine, Vegetarian Hog Dogging Monthly, find some like-minded individuals."
- Inspiration for my next project from TBH

True Blue Lacys: http://www.truebluelacys.com
More Lacy Pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/julieanna/sets/72157605027566732/


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 Post subject: Re: What the heck?
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:47 pm 
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Um I`m not going to get real involved in this derailing of Rach's post....
BUT the NKC, UKC, AKC, LGDR, ARF, CKC ect..every freaking one of them will register a dog if you can tell them the sire & dam for 3 generations, provide pictures and send them your money.. One of my Lacy Dogs (Double registered LGDR & NKC) only has a pedigree on one side..but the breeder came highly recommended and approved by the TLGDA & LGDR . The NKC accepted that as well.
White on the face is a disqualification with all the registries..including the TLGDA NKC ARF CKC..they are at best given limited registration..PERIOD

Now back to your puppies Rach...the creams are gorgeous..my personal fav :) It should be interesting to see how the one pup turns out color wise. I PMed you back.

Watch that little ones nose and let me know what color the leather is..just a curious genetics question..I`m thinking like Julie that he/she may be a brown dilute.

MRS BETTY I agree 100% with what you had to say about Rachael.. :)

Kevin no matter how well researched a pedigree may be...if you aren't working your Lacy it doesn't meet breeding standards. We require that Lacys actually work before they be bred and their litters registered. Amazing concept for a working breed huh?
Just because the Sire works..doesnt mean the pup will thus being why you should work your own dog and prove it instead of riding its parents or grand parents coat tails..

~Mis

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 Post subject: Re: What the heck?
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:23 pm 
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Location: La Vernia, TX.
Mis & Betty--:ymblushing:

I will definitely be posting plenty of pictures when the pups get older. :) I'm interested to see how these puppies will look, too. Their parents are near opposites, so we should have a good mix. You can already see that we will have some big, Levi-sized pups and some little, Chula-sized ones.

Thanks, Julie, for posting the spay/neuter examples. I think I will type one up and see if I can't get some of yall to look over it for me. I'm no lawyer, so I don't really know what I'm doing. :))

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