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 Post subject: Breeding
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:03 pm 
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Location: Falls City Tx
As a young inexperienced Lacy Breeder I have a question pertaining to the best interest of the breed. I bred my good working female to a good working male with intentions of keeping two pups to raise and train as hog dogs. Since I do not have the facilities or time to raise and train all five puppies properly, I decided to sell the remaining three. Now that I have these two pups I do not have any intentions of raising any more pups for a while.

Now here is the question, in the best interest of the breed, Should I keep breeding her to add fresh genetics and working dogs to good working kennels? Or should I not breed her again till I want more pups? Keep in mind this gyp is a healthy, proven strike dog, with a great build and has a very strong pedigree.

Her health is my number one concern. She is not just a “puppy factory” she is my dog. Since she cannot hunt anymore producing puppies should not be a problem for her to do in the future.

I would like some insights from more experienced breeders, and also people who know more about the best interests for the breed in general. My thoughts are I am only going to breed when I need pups, but that may change with information….

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 Post subject: Re: Breeding
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:15 pm 
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I would not breed her until you see how these pups turn out. Breeding two working dogs doesn't always ensure you will get great working pups. You should always skip a cycle on your Gyp,since they usually come in every 4-6 months you may end up only breeding her once a year anyways.

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 Post subject: Re: Breeding
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:29 pm 
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Well yes, if these pups don't turn out I will not make the same cross again.

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 Post subject: Re: Breeding
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:36 pm 
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Just out of curiosity,why can't the gyp hunt anymore?

And I would only breed when you need dogs for yourself out of your own lines that you can trust and have faith in.

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 Post subject: Re: Breeding
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:53 pm 
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She blew out her knee completely, tearing everything. She had surgery and is now completely healed. But the vet said she would never have full ability in that leg...

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 Post subject: Re: Breeding
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:56 pm 
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I can tell you this right now Patrick...that lil male you sold me has got balls...and they aint even dropped yet! :)) He takes crap from no one...and I don't think that lil nose of his ever turns off!!

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 Post subject: Re: Breeding
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:34 pm 
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Have you put her in the pen to see how she works after the surgery? Because I've known dogs to go through a big surgery and still be able to hunt. Unless it's just really bad...

Some of my dogs seem to be contracting a case of fat lard. :)) I need to build myself a bay pen so I can still work my dogs during the school week.

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 Post subject: Re: Breeding
 Post Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2009 9:54 pm 
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PJohnson wrote:
Now that I have these two pups I do not have any intentions of raising any more pups for a while.


Quote:
Should I keep breeding her to add fresh genetics and working dogs to good working kennels? Or should I not breed her again till I want more pups?


Quote:
Her health is my number one concern. She is not just a “puppy factory” she is my dog. Since she cannot hunt anymore producing puppies should not be a problem for her to do in the future.


Quote:
My thoughts are I am only going to breed when I need pups, but that may change with information….


It depends on what you mean by "keep breeding her". In general I can tell you that repeated breeding of any one specimen serves to decrease the gene pool, not increase it. Though that may not be a popular notion.

That being said, there is a nice happy medium for everything, right? There is certainly nothing wrong with breeding her again but considering that there is little to no threat of loosing her, I would not be in any hurry.

You don't need any more pups right now so there is no pressing need to breed. Also, by raising and studying the current pups, you will be able to make better, more informed, decisions as you plan future breeding. Maybe you will decide that the pups turned out pretty good and that you want more pups from her but you think that there was one little trait missing...... For the sake of the argument, lets say grit....... Because you waited you were able to identify a trait that you would like more of so now you can go find a stud who may compliment her differently.

Waiting until you need pups is a good honest policy which I try to promote myself. Sometimes I need them worse than others so the definition of "need" can be loose. Just so long as I have a waiting list of working homes for the pups, I'll do it even though I may only keep one pup for myself.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: Breeding
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 1:56 pm 
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I am going to use her in my bay pen to train her pups, but since she isn't "on top of her game" i don't want to put her in the woods at this moment.

Waiting to see how the pups turn out will also give her time to rest back up.

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 Post subject: Re: Breeding
 Post Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:18 pm 
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In my opinion, and it is just an opinion, the responsible thing to do is wait until this current litter is 1.5 or 2 years old. They won't be finished dogs yet, but you'll know for sure whether or not those dogs are turning out. If you like what you see, consider breeding her again.

If the goal is to produce good hog dogs for working kennels, you want to make sure she can actually produce that. Most of the best dogs in the world, whether they're hunting dogs or police dogs or show dogs, can't reproduce themselves without the assistance of heavy line breeding. That is because the best dogs are usually "freaks," so to speak, the perfect combination of just the right genes plus exactly the right environment and training to capitalize on those genes. Some dogs appear to be more prepotent than others, meaning they have a greater tendency to pass on the traits you desire. Those are the dogs that should be bred.

So if you see the traits you want in this litter once they've started working, breed her again. If you only see some of the traits you want, you could try again with a different stud, because half your genetic material is coming from the father anyway. And if you don't like what you see, I'd be very cautious about going forward even with a different stud, because if her offspring don't work the way you want them to, what would be the point in putting more dogs into this world?

Also, as Steve pointed out, repeatedly breeding the same dog only lessens genetic diversity in a breed. Actually, popular sire syndrome is one of the greatest challenges facing purebred dog breeders, because it rapidly flattens out the genetics of a population. Numbers of the population alone have nothing to do with genetic diversity.

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 Post subject: Re: Breeding
 Post Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2009 10:27 am 
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Steve & Julie left really nothing unsaid..SO :p

Patrick study up on some genetics and make these pups you kept a real project. As well as the pups you placed. This is the perfect time for you to really grow as a breeder and learn a lot of valuable information that can only come with "hands on" experience.

Also,I`m sure you know this BUT back to back breeding, or excessive breeding (back to back to back) can become dangerous for your Gyp. The last thing you want is to loose a good working gyp to a ruptured uterus.


Quote:
I am going to use her in my bay pen to train her pups, but since she isn't "on top of her game"

After Heidi's surgery we had to adjust how we work her as well, but Mike still runs her in the woods, just in shorter "spurts" so she doesn't get hurt. It sucks to have a good one get injured and not have the same mobility but still have the drive.. :(

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