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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:28 pm 
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Rebecca, eye color is really tricky, because there are some extra genes that will effect it. Even though coat color doesn't always determine the iris color, it does always act on it. The default eye color for dogs is deep brown. The reason Lacys have light eyes, which range from dark orange to greenish yellow, is that the dd gene dilutes the iris pigment as well. So overall, Lacys will have light eyes, but it appears the specific shading of the iris is passed down through lines, like height or ear length. Amos is a perfect example, a lot of the Respondek dogs have very intense eyes, and they seem to pass it on to their offspring as well. Brutus is out of Sweet Honey and he has incredible eyes. Lucy is Sweet Honey's granddaughter, and not only are her eyes awesome, her pups get them too. Even though it isn't clear which genes interact for eye color, it does appear that exceptions from brown are dominant, so a dog only needs one intense yellow gene to get intense yellow eyes.

Darren, I bet that browner looking blue was bb, because your cream pup definitely has a brown base. Which means the other blue was a Bb. So, without knowing what else was in the litter or what his grandparents were to determine his A locus, he's a bb/chch/dd/ee.

And when you say red tri, do you mean a liver/brown-ish base with red points? Or essentially a solid red dog that you can faintly see lighter red points on? Genetically, those are two different things. So if you have pictures of red tris, I'd be really interested in looking at them. Rebecca, I'll take a peek at the dog you're talking about as well.

Red seems to be the most diverse and most confusing color of all. Tris and creams are pretty straightforward. Blues have a couple variations. But given the genes in the other colors, there are several different ways to get to a red. Which makes predicting litter colors difficult. The big questions I still have is about reds originating from the A locus. As I said, we know there is A and at, and you need atat to express a tri. By suppressing the eumelanin with ee, you'd get a very clear, unshaded red from A. But I've seen several breeders that consistently have red pups with big blue stripes. Yes, a little shading at birth is normal, but significant blue shading that is still around a couple months later will never completely fade. One way that would happen is with ay. An ayay should be a clear sable, so mainly red with a few black hairs mixed in. But ay is incompletely dominant over at, so an ayat dog will have some tri shading originating off the midline, like a blue stripe on a red dog. There is also a proposed saddleback gene, which would act in a similar way.

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True Blue Lacys: http://www.truebluelacys.com
More Lacy Pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/julieanna/sets/72157605027566732/


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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 10:01 pm 
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somebody should start breeding hot pink and lime green lacy dogs lol i think that the only color collars cut vest or anything else that goes on a dog im using anymore and maybe yellow piss on camo i need all the help i can to see them.

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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:28 pm 
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Hey now y'all leave my market alone..I`m working on the worlds first Lavender Lacy!! :p

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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:49 pm 
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Well, if Julie has her way, there will be a bright pink one out there some day!!

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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:28 pm 
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I started to do a Punnett square for the color genes, but had a brain hemorrhage and spent the last several days in intensive care.

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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:37 pm 
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:)) Genetics will do that to you!

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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:58 pm 
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Ha, good luck Jim!

As I said, I'm still curious about the possibility of reds originating from the A locus, so if you see something regarding that, let me know.

Has anyone seen two reds throw a blue pup? If so, it doesn't necessarily prove anything, but it makes a stronger argument for additional red activity at A. The geneticist I talked to said Lacys look like ee reds, especially since there isn't supposed to be the sable shading, but that could also be a result of the dd influence.

Amber, I've been looking into the white markings (called spotting in genetics) even more, and I do believe Lacys have a modified spotting gene. Faults with spotting could arise for a couple reasons, I'm still trying to figure them all out. But one thing I do know is that ticking in the white is indeed a specific gene. Every Lacy I've personally seen with speckles in their white can trace their lineage back to the Burke's yard. And that ticking appears to be a dominant gene.

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- Inspiration for my next project from TBH

True Blue Lacys: http://www.truebluelacys.com
More Lacy Pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/julieanna/sets/72157605027566732/


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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:16 pm 
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Well, you can add Aggie to that list. She has faint blue ticking on her white patch. Burke's Maximus and Burke's Whistlin' Dixie are her dam's sire and dam. However, I can't back you up on the dominance of it. Piper's white patch is solid white.

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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:24 pm 
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I did not read all of that cause half way through I wound up next to Jim in ICU
Mis told me about it though along with the purple theory..next we will have blue dogs with red spots in their white JUST so Julie Mis and Steve can figure out how that happened!

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 Post Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:34 pm 
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Hey Julie, I am still lookin for that red tri pic don 't give up on me yet! I have seen a ticked white on a burkes blooded dog also but none of mine have it. Would that be considered a fault? I think so. I understand alot about the white spotting on the lacys mine both had a streek running up there neck under there chin. Some of there pups would throw white stripes on there faces the more white on the pups face. The bigger the white tips on there toes and the bigger the white tip on there tail. Very little white very small tips. I have seen this for the last 7 years. If you guys will loook at a pup with a streak on there head see how much white is going up the parents chest and neck. one will have it I would bet. /:)


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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:02 pm 
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Darren, I think your observation about the white is completely accurate. It's really the neck that is going to tip you off. If the white on the chest doesn't extend up the neck at all, you have the modifier to contain it to the chest, but if it does start up the neck and gets to the chin, you're playing with fire. Technically I think that white on the chin, like underneath the muzzle, would be a fault, and for good reason if you want to control the white on the face.

I've heard some breeders say that no matter what you'll eventually throw white on the face. I don't believe that's true. If you study the parents and grandparents carefully, you can control it. Sure, dog breeding is an art as well as a science, you can never perfectly predict an outcome, but your observation makes perfect genetic sense. Hopefully we'll get this information out there and encourage informed breeding practices so people don't have to spend seven years figuring it out like you did!

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"You must be a very small minority no matter who you hang around with. Maybe you should start a magazine, Vegetarian Hog Dogging Monthly, find some like-minded individuals."
- Inspiration for my next project from TBH

True Blue Lacys: http://www.truebluelacys.com
More Lacy Pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/julieanna/sets/72157605027566732/


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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2009 4:41 pm 
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Yeah I can t find the tri pics I must have lost them with the crash of my old hard drive. but I can honestly say it was visible and you did not have to use your imagination it was plain to see. Also I think if anybody has had a problem with a streak going up the face of their pups they can look under there chin and neck area and see white in the parents some where. I think it must be contained on the chest area. Darren


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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:01 am 
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So I have a question about the white. I had a heeler once that had so much white she was deaf. So that white gene can cause some serious problems, but in the last litter I had there was a puppy that had so much white he wears sunscreen on his nose in the summer. He is the most laid back dog, they had a little trouble with him for a while mainly with dominance issues, but he is a pet he doesn't get worked, and he isn't missing it. Now another pup out of the same litter loves to hunt and has really turned out to be a good hunter. They will be 2 in May. So can the white have that much affect on the dog?

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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:36 am 
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I don't think so. I've met a deaf lacy though. Solid blue except maybe white feet. I will have to ask the owner. The dog isn't worked or anything like that. Just a pet. The white gene in lacys isn't the same as in heelers or catahoulas.


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 Post Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:15 pm 
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I'm bored at work and making a spreadsheet with the color genetics of all 9 of our family's Lacys. For the life of me, I can't remember what color Respondek's Luke and Lucy are. I want to say one is red and the other is tri, but I may be wrong. I know they threw blue, red, and tri pups. Rebecca, can you help me out on this?

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