Register    Login    Forum    Search    FAQ

Board index » Dr. Dog » Breeding & Genetics




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Lacy Cow Dog Bloodlines
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 5:03 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Union Co. FL
Which bloodlines in the Lacy breed are known for herding?

We both have grown up with catahoulas and yellow black mouth curs. However, because of their unique coat and eye color, houlas have become a fad breed that shelters/rescues are now overflowing with. Unfortunatley, unscrupulous quanity breeders have bred the drive and workability out of the majority of catahoulas. Recently, while at our feedyard in Vernon TX a lacy introduced herself to me and I have been captivated ever since. Before falling head over heels into being owned by a Lacy I would like to know more about each bloodlines strengths and traits.

_________________
"Somedays your the DAWG.....somedays your the hydrant"
Christa


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:36 pm
Posts: 906
Location: menard tx.
To put it very simply most GOOD BLOODED lacys will work cattle. The same thing is happening to the lacy breed. Too many BREEDERS are clameing that there dogs are working dogs because they will bark at a hog or cow in a pen. They are selling these as being from proven working stock. Some of these dogs are big enought to throw a saddle on and ride. [-x So if you want a pup from working lines you need to SEE the sire ane dam WORK. call me if you have any ? about Lacys. 325-396-3809. Thanks Jim.

_________________
Dont get my personality and my attitude twisted, Because my personality is me, and my attitude depends on you.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:44 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 12:00 pm
Posts: 531
Location: La Vernia, TX.
Like Jimmy said, most Lacys bred with the intention of keeping their natural drive and instinct will work cattle, hogs, or just about what ever you want them to. Defiantely give him a call if you want to find some good dogs and breeders. I don't know of any specific cow dog lines, but I'm sure they can be found.

There's currently a big gap in the breeding of Lacys. Some choose to breed larger dogs and some choose to breed smaller ones. Increasingly popular on both ends of the Lacy size spectrum in the breeding of pet Lacys. I don't think you'll get any better of a dog if you buy a small-bred Lacy over a large-bred Lacy. While high is important to consider, cow dog instict is all in the working ability of the parents, not their height.

_________________
"One touch of nature makes the whole world kin."
-- Shakespeare

My Flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/11972487@N04/


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:40 pm 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:27 am
Posts: 2456
Location: SoCal
I agree with Jimmy, working Lacys should be able to get it done. For example, the daughter out of one of his best trap line dogs is working cows like a fiend. And a cow dog has a lot of the same skills as a hog dog. If you get a dog from proven working parents, I think they can excel in several areas.

But the key is proven working parents. Because they are such beautiful dogs with an interesting history, Lacys are starting to have the same issues as Catahoulas. There are so many uneducated people breeding them to be pretty blue pets. And there are even more people claiming their dogs can work. Barking a couple times at an animal in a cage or chasing livestock through a pasture does not prove anything. As Jimmy said, you need to see the sire and dam get down to business and work in the field. If that isn't geographically possible, you need to see lots of pictures, have some serious conversations with the breeder and talk to folks like Jim who have been working Lacys for over 50 years.

Few breeders specialize purely in cow dogs. I know pups from the Lows and both Brooks families have done well with cattle, but their pups just work in general, whether it is a hog or a cow or a coyote. However, there is a guy in the Hill Country that has some serious Lacy cow dogs, and MisB got a pup from him a few months ago that she is training to be a hog dog. You might want to talk to her about it.

It sounds like you understand the concept that you need to breed working dogs to produce working dogs, and I certainly think a good Lacys is worth the research, so please keep asking questions!

_________________
"You must be a very small minority no matter who you hang around with. Maybe you should start a magazine, Vegetarian Hog Dogging Monthly, find some like-minded individuals."
- Inspiration for my next project from TBH

True Blue Lacys: http://www.truebluelacys.com
More Lacy Pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/julieanna/sets/72157605027566732/


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:28 am
Posts: 285
Location: Bel Aire, KS
I personally like catahoulas and have had them in the past. A friend of mine has always had unregistered catahoulas simply because they worked for him and his family has had unregistered catahoulas for a long time. He is able to get them to work cattle on command then SWITCH over to hogs then SWITCH over to coons and squirrels and it's all in the training from what he says plus he says he puts different collars for each critter so the dog knows what it is supposed to do which is a good way of training the dogs. He said he does not start them on hogs until they've worked solid on cattle and that is usually when they're 1 year old and big and fast enough to get out of the cattle's way when they charge. They're also verbally trained. I plan to get some of his pups later on to see how they turn out when I have the property to do so. He now is considering maybe adding a few registered dogs from very high working bloodlines that he knows of. He does his research and his dogs are worked almost every day so I suspect it makes a huge difference. His dogs look like the typical glass eyed catahoulas but with less leopard markings in them and long, long legs.

I suspect in order to be a good cow dog, the lacy would have to be trained and also worked daily to develop that skill then you could perhaps switch them over to hogs. Was told the main reason the catahoula guy didn't put his pups on hogs first instead of cattle is because if you do so, the dog becomes too catchy on cattle and that is a huge no-no in the cattle herding industry because the dog thinks it's ok to treat a cow the same way the dog treats the hog.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:32 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 5:03 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Union Co. FL
THANKS! for the great input.

Ted - Your Houla friend is absolutely right.....You can always train the catch later after you have verbal control, HOWEVER it is almost impossible to take the catch out. When working cattle you don't want a 70 lb. dog catching a new born calf.....MAJOR! Bad Dog move.

Has anyone heard of a "driver" dog? an elderly cow dog buddy was describing a dog he saw work at the cow dog trials in Valdosta GA, it sounded exactly like a Lacy.

_________________
"Somedays your the DAWG.....somedays your the hydrant"
Christa


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:20 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:28 am
Posts: 285
Location: Bel Aire, KS
I have another question:does it really matter what size the lacy is in cattle work because I would suspect the cattle to have little to no respect for a smaller sized lacy? I believe that a larger dog is more intimidating but that's just my opinion, lol.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:56 am 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:48 pm
Posts: 2226
Location: Alto, TX
Ted, I don't think the size of the dog makes much difference. It's more about the skill and grit. Aaron's dog Baylee is only about 35 lbs, but that doesn't stop her. Plus, a 40 pound Lacy will almost always be quicker than a 70 pound dog.

_________________
“We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare and love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It’s the best deal man has ever made.”
M. Facklam


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:18 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:28 am
Posts: 285
Location: Bel Aire, KS
I suspected as much when I saw your dogs, Amber! :)) too bad I didn't get to see how they did in the bay pen. I am starting to like smaller sized dogs...cheaper feed bill too!

How's your pregnancy going? Turns out that my wife's 2nd pregnancy triggered a very rare blood clotting disorder which nearly killed her and our 2nd child. Jen (my wife) apparently has a Protein S Defiency and commonly it comes along with a 2nd blood disorder and in Jen's case it probably is Factor V. Her cousin has it. Basically Protein S causes severe blood clots that can kill and she ended up in the ER with a giant one in her leg and unable to walk. Scary. Had to learn to give herself injections (blood thinners) 3 times a day for 6 months and now that our daughter, Annalise, was born healthy and happy, Jen is now down to 1 injection a day...until the confirmed blood results come in and most likely she will switch to a better blood thinner that she can take by pill form. Bad thing about PSD is that it's most likely inherited so we have to check to see if our kids have gotten it (50%). Our son can't be in any sports which involve any body contact which sucks because you know how boys can be!


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:23 am 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:48 pm
Posts: 2226
Location: Alto, TX
It hasn't been perfect, but we're doing ok. The baby (and myself) are growing, and we'll find out what it is this month. Thanks for asking.

_________________
“We give dogs time we can spare, space we can spare and love we can spare. And in return, dogs give us their all. It’s the best deal man has ever made.”
M. Facklam


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:41 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2008 1:28 am
Posts: 285
Location: Bel Aire, KS
That's good. Have you tried to get your dogs used to the idea of a baby? I know that the dog I gave you is really good with kids..a bit pushy but hey, that's a bulldog but she is careful. My lacy didn't really care about my kids and still doesn't today but he knows he's not supposed to bite them.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:22 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:30 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Georgetown,Tx
Are you looking for a herding dog,Sean?


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:24 am 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 4:46 pm
Posts: 4640
The 12th of June, Julie and Steve and I are going to visit with a man who has 2 lacys that he works cattle with. One is from Jimmy Brooks and the other is from the Larrimores. If his dogs weigh 40 pounds, it would be a stretch. I am so looking forward to visiting with him and Julie getting some good pics of Lacys on cattle.

My dog Lucy came from a line that works everyday with Longhorn cattle. Those dogs were not any bigger than she is and she stays at 45 lbs and is a little over 20". She started working the cattle at 4 mo old. She was chasing our bull by that time. He didnt run, but she sure tried to move him!! She was and always has been fearless when it comes to cattle.

As Amber says, and as Jimmy will tell you, you dont want a big Lacy dog. These dogs were bred to be small and fast. Heck, there shouldnt even be such a thing as a 70 lb lacy dog! What a good, small lacy lacks in size, they make up for in speed, agility, grit and smarts.

Betty

_________________
Betty

"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did
better."
Maya Angelou

"You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something in your life!"
Winston Churchill

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bjleek/


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 25, 2009 5:03 pm
Posts: 3
Location: Union Co. FL
TedH71 wrote:
I have another question:does it really matter what size the lacy is in cattle work because I would suspect the cattle to have little to no respect for a smaller sized lacy? I believe that a larger dog is more intimidating but that's just my opinion, lol.


Ted - "It's not the size of the dog in the fight.....It's the size of fight in the dog". however, here in Fl a larger dog does work better to push 1/2 crazed woods cattle out of flat ponds and hammocks. Once in the pens a smaller dog does have a better advantage with agility to help sort and hold cattle in a bunch.

What is the "Official" registry for the Lacy?

_________________
"Somedays your the DAWG.....somedays your the hydrant"
Christa


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 10:40 pm 
Offline
NLDA Lifetime Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:27 am
Posts: 2456
Location: SoCal
You'd be amazed at what these Lacys can do. Despite being half the size of a Catahoula, they will boss around a boar or bull without a problem. Glen Lewis has been moving his practically feral cattle around the Texas Hill Country with 30-40 pound Lacys for years. You'd definitely want to work a pair, not a single dog, but they'll get the job done.

There is really no such thing as an "official" registry. I've seen that term thrown around and it just confuses me. The official registry of what? You need something to recognize and declare something official, and the only governing body that would do that for Lacys is the individual breed clubs.

Currently, there is no "official" NLDA registry, but we do recognize several registries as legitimate sources for pedigree information. Animal Research Foundation was the first Lacy registry, Lacy Game Dog Association is the largest Lacy registry, and National Lacy Dog Registry is the most rigorous Lacy registry. NKC is also legit but is no longer registering dogs. Of course papers are exactly that, paper, and don't guarantee a dog will look the right way or behave a certain way or come from proven working parents. The NLDR is hoping to improve on that by instituting graduated registration so a Lacy must meet a conformation and working standard before it can be bred. By requiring the parents meet certain criteria, there should be a significant increase in the quality and consistency of each litter.

_________________
"You must be a very small minority no matter who you hang around with. Maybe you should start a magazine, Vegetarian Hog Dogging Monthly, find some like-minded individuals."
- Inspiration for my next project from TBH

True Blue Lacys: http://www.truebluelacys.com
More Lacy Pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/julieanna/sets/72157605027566732/


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Board index » Dr. Dog » Breeding & Genetics


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron