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 Post subject: All around wormer
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:29 am 
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Location: Troup, Tx
So what is the best allround dog wormer i can get for a reasonable price have way to many dogs to get the expensive stuff. or is it better to buy seperate Heartworm & then wormer that takes care of everything else. Thanks for the input


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 Post subject: Re: All around wormer
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:41 am 
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We started giving Zimmermectin a few months ago. It's wormer for horses, but a tiny fingertip-sized dose of it works for each dog. It was mentioned in one of the other threads around here. It's supposed to take care of everything from heartworms to roundworms and we picked it up pretty cheap at the local feed store.

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 Post subject: Re: All around wormer
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:40 am 
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dont use the gold! it has been killing horses and dogs. A houndsman around here used it on his pack and lost 7 out of 10 dogs if i remember right. becareful with that stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: All around wormer
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 12:04 pm 
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We use Ivamectin on our dogs which is another livestock wormer but don't use it on any dog less than a year or you'll kill'em

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 Post subject: Re: All around wormer
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:06 pm 
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Location: Burnet County
Safegaurd is a horse wormer, it can be used on dogs safely. It does NOT cover heart worms and is not quite aggressive enough in one dose for tapes.1 dose every day for 3 days, 2 times per month usually to catch the cycles of the tape.

Equi-Phar is another equine product safe for dogs..my vet gets it for us. Again not the best for tapes which are the most common of worms for dogs in the south.
For tape worms you need tape specific meds. OR consistent use of safegard or equi-phar ProTal.

Ivermectin is dangerous stuff..if you dose it to high it WILL kill your dog no if ands or buts.
You have to know the correct weight of your dog and it needs to be dosed to exact mil. Too little and it wont work, too much and it kills the dog. Some breeds it kills period, as with Aussies and some other Shepard breeds. Why I have no clue..just know that my country vet said so...and I trust him.

NOW for hog dogs..this is a different story, as they tend to be exposed to parasites not found in the typical back yard.
Valbasin (its a goat wormer) runs about 60$ a bottle BUT its a big bottle. Add 10cc of ivermec to it..shake it up..and there ya go...it covers pretty much everything..
I can't get a hold of Steve or Mike right now to say how much to give and I blanked out..but its like 1/2 of a cc per 10lbs. BUT don't do that until I can confirm that please.

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 Post subject: Re: All around wormer
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:22 pm 
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I havent had worms since ive been using DE, Just cake it on both sides of a peice of meat and they will eat it :))

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 Post subject: Re: All around wormer
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:34 pm 
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That is the safest and most effective way Chad. I`m all for DE and any other homeopathic/holistic treatment...but it's not cheap especially if you have a lot of dogs.
The food grade DE runs about 50$ a bag here and doesn't last long if you're using it on a lot of dogs and frequently. I have found with DE and the life cycle of tapes, you have to use it every day for a good long while to get rid of the worms. It is the best choice in my opinion but not always the most affordable.

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 Post subject: Re: All around wormer
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:08 pm 
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I'm all for DE. That stands for diatomaceous earth, FYI ;) It is extremely effective for internal parasites. It does not, however, prevent heart worms. I'm not saying that you shouldn't go that route. As has been pointed out, chemical wormers are toxic, and even the correct doses will build up over time in a dog's system. There's a reason so many pets get cancer these days, long term exposure to toxins no doubt contributing to it. But in the interest of full disclosure, heart worms aren't covered with DE, so you'll have to weigh that risk for yourself depending on where you live.

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 Post subject: Re: All around wormer
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:32 am 
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As for Ivomec being dangerous to herding dogs..esp Aussies, border collies, and some other herding dogs with collie in them somewhere..it's true. They found out that somewhere in the distant past a dog had a gene that made the dog allergic to Ivomec and seems that specific dog was a herding champion so every female was bred to him spreading that gene (proves that you do need a really big gene pool!). There is a DNA test that the dog can have done to see if the dog carries that gene. If not, then the dog can have Ivomec. An Aussie breeder told me this and added this comment, "That stud dog had to be hell of a herding dog to have been bred to different herding breeds!" Seems the breeds that have collie in them were a big bunch and spread out from one ancestoral breed in the past. Makes sense. Dogs that have the gene can take Ivomec but not directly. Has to be in the pill form since the company really reduces the amount of Ivomec in those pills enough not to trigger the allergic reaction. Seems Australian Cattle dog aka heelers..aren't allergic to it since they have other breeds mixed in their dna.


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 Post subject: Re: All around wormer
 Post Posted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:34 pm 
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azchad wrote:
dont use the gold! it has been killing horses and dogs. A houndsman around here used it on his pack and lost 7 out of 10 dogs if i remember right. becareful with that stuff.


If I had to bet, who ever lost dogs to Ivermectin, Zimmermectin Gold, Equimax or any other Ivermectin based product did so as a result of incorrect dosage. Use of Zimmermectin in K9s is off label usage and if you give a dog equine dosage, it will cause renal failure within 6 months.

As Mis stated, the only OTC product which kills/prevents Heart Worms is Ivermectin. Max K9 dosage with Ivermectin is 1/10 (.10)CC per 10lb administered orally. Ivermectins only short coming is its lacking effectiveness on tapes, lung worms and some intestinal parasites. A much lower dosage prevents Heart Worms but if you worm with Ivermectin ONLY, I would use max dosage. As effective as Ivermectin is on Heart Worms, it takes a high dose to kill other parasites.

Zimmermectin Gold and Equimax have Ivermectin and Praziquenal (sp?). It proves very broad spectrum as the Praziquenal kills the heck out of Tapes, Lungs and darn near all intestinals. Proper oral dosage is a Lima Bean sized squirt rubbed on the roof of the dogs mouth.

The Valbasin/Ivermectin mix proves the most broad spectrum of all, killing everything listed above as well as just about every fluke, nematode and organ worm in existence. The only draw back to it is that it is a little light on the tapes. I mix 15CC of Ivermectin in a 500ML bottle of Valbasin and administer sheep dosage according to the label. with that mix, a 50 lb dog only gets .3CC of Ivermectin which is lower than max but plenty to prevent Heart Worms; the Valbasin takes care of everything else.

I normally switch between the Valbasin mix and one of the Ivermectin/Praziquenal based products every other month. That should take care of any and all parasites that a hog dog comes into contact with even if they are eating Deer, Goat, Cow and Hog shit along the way.

Safeguard is a great wormer for puppies as it is a passive. You literally can not overdose an animal with it. Its drawback is the same as DE, it only kills intestinals and has no effect on blood borns or organ parasites which are a hunting dogs additional concerns.

As mentioned, Ivermectin usage on Collie type dogs is NEVER recommended.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: All around wormer
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:29 am 
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What do yall this about this mixture??? http://kdsblackmouthcurs.com/puppy_health


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 Post subject: Re: All around wormer
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:51 am 
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I heard about that and read it. Was told by a vet that it was an off label use for most of it. Didn't say it was bad or good though. Just that you really need to know your measures and dog weights.


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 Post subject: Re: All around wormer
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:12 pm 
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yea i new it was an off label wormer. and i know some vets that give it to people but they wont tell you the mixture


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 Post subject: Re: All around wormer
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:07 pm 
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That sounds like the same valbazen/ivermectin ratio that Mis uses. I don't know about the dosage, though.

I noticed on the bottom of the page that there's a section about Bayer Tree & Shrub. FYI, they have changed the formula, and it now contains fertilizer. There are some other brands that don't have the fertilizer, though, like Gordon's Tree & Shrub (Tractor Supply).

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 Post subject: Re: All around wormer
 Post Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:42 pm 
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http://stores.intuitwebsites.com/WildBo ... Detail.bok Yea I heard about that. i ordered this stuff from Ugly Dog. It came in yesterday. Hope it works. its 100% Organic


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