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 Post subject: chemicals
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 11:49 am 
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I was on the TLGDA website yesterday and there was a discussion about the best way to keep fleas and ticks off of your dogs. I couldnt respond on there, of course, but I wanted to give a little input here.

One person on the thread said that he opens the dogs mouth and pours in Ivimex (sp?). Now, let me tell you something. Pouring Ivimex down your dogs throat, or even putting it on the skin, is no different than putting it down your own throat. First off, like one person said, Ivimex is not labeled for dogs. I dont care if the King Vet says its ok, its not. It has not been tested to see how it affects dogs. Just because the dogs dont show any signs of damage at first, doesnt mean its ok!! The damage may come down the road in the form of cancer, or other things. Nobody really knows, because it hasnt been proven. Please, do not use Ivimex on your dogs. We use it on the cattle, but excuse me, its a POISON. Its not too good for the cows, but I cant keep the bugs off and out of them any other way.

I realize that fleas and ticks can be a problem and if you have a heavy infestation, you might have to use chemicals. I will tell you tho, that my prey model raw fed dogs have no chemicals, or even natural stuff, on them to keep off fleas and ticks. During the time when the ticks are really active, like in early spring, I will pick a tick or two off of the dogs and myself. Altho I found a few fleas on my cats (they eat kibble and canned, bless their hearts!) this summer, I never saw a flea on my dogs. I dont remember taking a tick off of any dog, other than Lucy. My reasoning for that is that Lucy has had more vaccines than the other dogs and because of that has a weaker immune system.

If you have a heavy infestation there are some alternative treatments that you can try and usually they work very well. I understand that no one wants fleas and ticks in their house and some times chemicals have to be used. Tea Tree oil is great for killing fleas and ticks. It kills them Johnny on the spot! Neem oil is a good repellant for yourself and the dogs. Diatomaceous earth is a great killer and can be used for all kinds of bugs, inside and out. It can be used as a wormer, for fleas and ticks and just any bug in general. There are all kinds of commercial natural bug repellant and killers. If you want more info, just let me know.

Remember that if your dogs are healthy, and they will be if they are raw fed, and minimally vaccinated, their bodies will not be a good target for the bugs. The bugs will go find a weaker host to live on. A great example of bugs going after the weaker host is in your garden. Anyone who plants anything knows that the weaker plants are the ones that the aphids go after first. If I buy a weak plant you can better believe that it wont make it out here with all the bugs that I have. A healthy plant will be just fine.


Always remember that under most all circumstances, the things that are sold as 'chemicals' for your pets, are really poisons. They poison your dog just the same as they poison the bug that they are targeting.

Betty

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 Post subject: Re: chemicals
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 8:45 pm 
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So what is with Tea Tree Oil. The crazy snake lady sent a bottle to Addy when she was sick, along with other things.... What exactly do you use it for? Dog or Human? My next door neighbor is complaining abou tfleas, so much so they had their couch on the back porch and exterminating the house!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: chemicals
 Post Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:07 pm 
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Tea Tree oil is a great essential oil. It is an anti-biotic, anti-fungal and anti-bacterial oil. It can be used for all kinds of things. Since it has antiseptic qualities, you will find it in all kinds of things, such as shampoos,lotions, etc. I use it to calm the itchies from mosquito bites, etc. You can put it in aloe vera lotion to cool a sunburn. It works for curing cold sores, dandruff, eczema and all kinds of things like that. It kills fleas, ticks, lice, etc. I used a little of it in shampoo when the dogs have had flea and tick problems in the past. You can put it on a cotton ball and just apply it straight to a tick and it will kill it. It has an effect kinda like a menthol, so it works in clearing the sinuses when you have a cold, or allergies. So, you can see that it has many uses and is a main stay in the medical cabinet.

Tea Tree oil is poisonous to cats, so never use it on a cat. It can also be poisonous to small dogs, but you have to use quite a lot of it for it to be dangerous. So, be careful how much you use and take the size of the dog into consideration. They say not to use essential oils straight from the bottle. You need to put it in a carrier oil, such as almond oil, vegetable oil, etc. I do use it straight from the bottle, but you're not supposed to. Some essential oils can be pretty potent, so if you dont know, use the carrier oil.

Betty

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 Post subject: Re: chemicals
 Post Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:58 am 
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Ooops, I forgot to post that you should never give or take essential oils internally. You would think that one would know that, but on one website that I go to, a man talked about taking tea tree oil internally with ice cream so that he could get it down, since it tasted so bad!! Another sign of peoples stupidity.

Betty

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 Post subject: Re: chemicals
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:11 pm 
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Betty- I use ivermec on my dogs. It is to control heart worms not fleas. For fleas I use Bayer Tree and shrub. Works really well.


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 Post subject: Re: chemicals
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:09 pm 
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Mike,

I know that a lot of people use ivermectin on their dogs, but it is still not good for the dogs. Using a tree and shrub chemical on your dogs may work well, but those poisons were not developed for use on animals. If you notice on the label, it tells you what all to do to protect yourself from the chemicals and how to properly dispose of the container that they are in. That tells me that the chemical in that bottle is dangerous. Chemicals build up in the body and will do damage. Animals are just like us, the fewer chemicals that you are exposed to, the healthier you are.

You are feeding the dogs raw food. That is so very good for them, why destroy them by putting chemicals on them and in them when there are so many better things to do to handle the bugs? As I said in my previous post, my dogs have no chemicals used on them and they are bug free. An occasional tick is all that I ever see on them. For worms, which I rarely worry about, I use DE and they are fine. A dog that is raw fed has a strong immune system and bugs are rarely a problem for them. A person that has a strong immune system doesnt catch colds and viruses like one with a weak immune system. A dog is the same.

Betty

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 Post subject: Re: chemicals
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:00 pm 
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Betty, does Diatomaceous earth really work for worms? What do you do, put it on their food? I've heard of it for fleas but not for worms.

As you know, I'm all for feeding raw and using a holistic approach to health, but I also know the serious issues that can come from parasites. I used to do Heart Guard and Frontline for worms and fleas, but now Steve does the Ivermax. I have to admit, I'm not totally comfortable with it, but with Sadie's exposure to wild game I'm very concerned about worms. She actually came to me from the breeder with fleas and tapeworms, which made me irate and was pretty disgusting, so I've been very vigilant about keeping the parasites at bay. I used Ivermax with horses for years and never had any issues. Of course I know a dog and a horse are different, but both are exposed to similar creepy crawlies.

This is definitely on my list to ask a holistic vet. In the mean time, do you have any good links for research?

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 Post subject: Re: chemicals
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:38 pm 
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Julie,
Yes it really works for worms as well. You use the food grade and mix it with their food. It cuts & dehydrates the worms. It can take a little longer to be rid of all the worms because of some worms cycle through the lungs BUT it is absolutely worth it because it is harmless to the dog and works with out any side effects.
For fleas & ticks you rub it on them and sprinkle it around their run & bed ect.

You can also use it in your home (food grade) on your carpet & beds ect to kill out mites, bedbugs, fleas and other creepy crawlies. It is completely harmless to people even if accidentally inhaled, it can clog your vacuum tho if you dust to heavy.

~Mis

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 Post subject: Re: chemicals
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:44 pm 
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Oh and the best carrier oil for essential oils is grape seed oil. It's light and doesn't stain clothing as easily.

Also with Tea Tree you can add several drops to water in a spray bottle to spray dogs. Avoid the eyes. (roughly 10 drops to 1 quart)

Maleluca Oil (either compound) is better then most tea tree oils you can buy when you can find it. It is a little more expensive but it's worth it. They are the same plant just different compound and processed slightly different. The Maleluca is higher quality.


~Mis

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 Post subject: Re: chemicals
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:53 pm 
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I don't like to use pesticides on my dogs. I use Frontline as minimally as possible...and usually that ends up being only one or two times a year...when ticks are at their worst. For worms and fleas I use Sentinel. In tests, the ingredients in Sentinel seemed to affect nematodes and arthropods only...with no affect on mammals. For example, one ingredient blocks the production of chitin...the shell of insects. Since mammals don't synthesize chitin, it should have no effect on them. This is much safer than the topical pesticides which can affect all animal nervous systems.

By the way, Heartguard contains ivermectin.

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 Post subject: Re: chemicals
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:17 am 
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OK, last night before I went to bed, I posted an answer about DE. I lost it again. So, here I am back again! The info below is good info to print out and save. I have used DE in my vegetable garden and I use it on the dogs. I dont worry too much about worms in the dogs, but if they do have any indications of them, I just put it on the dogs raw food. It sticks to the food pretty good and the dogs dont seem to mind it.

Food grade diatomaceous earth has many uses. The information below will
tell you some of the differences in grades of diatomaceous earth, along
with information on how to use food grade diatomaceous earth.

Natural Diatomaceous Earth (DE) is the remains of microscopic one-celled
plants (phytoplankton) called diatoms that lived in the oceans and lakes
that once covered the western part of the US and other parts of the
world. These deposits are mined from underwater beds or from ancient
dried lake bottoms.

Diatomaceous earth is mined, milled, and processed into a myriad of
types for a large variety of uses. Filtering and filler are two main
uses but diatomaceous earth also ends up in paints, cosmetics, drugs,
chemical insecticides, etc. Because the milling produces different sized
and shaped particles, it is important not to use the filtering type for
agricultural purposes.

Pool filter grade diatomaceous earth has been heat and chemically
treated and will poison an animal or human who ingests it, so it is
always of utmost importance to only obtain food grade diatomaceous earth
to use in and around your household.

Diatoms (DE) are the grass of the oceans and lakes. Just as grass is the
staple food of earth animals. Diatoms (algae) are the food of the ocean
or fresh water grazers. Magnified 7000x, diatomaceous earth looks like
spiney honeycombs.

Food grade diatomaceous earth is EPA approved to be mixed with grains to
control mealworms and other pests and has been exempted from tolerance
requirements as an inert, inactive ingredient in chemical pesticides.
Diatomaceous earth is EPA approved against indoor and outdoor crawling
insects. Diatomaceous earth is USDA approved as an anti-caking agent for
animal feed. Diatomaceous earth is FDA approved for internal and
external use and has a rating of Food Chemical Codex Grade.

DISCLAIMER: Any food grade diatomaceous earth uses other than those
approved by the EPA, FDA, or USDA are strictly reports of what farmers,
others, and we ourselves have done with diatomaceous earth.
Additionally, the following material is not intended as a substitute for
the advice of a physician or vet. This information is not intended as a
substitute for the reader's independent judgment and personal
responsibility. Health issues are far too important to delegate to
anyone else. It is highly recommended you seek information and counsel
from as wide a variety of sources as possible, as in the end YOU make
the decisions.

Our diatomaceous earth is Codex Food Chemical Grade. It is a
non-treated, non-milled, non-calcined fresh water form of Diatomaceous
Earth and is pure white in color. It contains less than 1% silicon.
There are food grade diatomaceous earth products that are yellow or tan
in color which indicates a higher iron content. Those which are gray in
color contain more clay.

INTERNAL PARASITE CONTROL: Food grade diatomaceous earth makes a very
effective natural insecticide. The insecticidal quality of diatomaceous
earth is due to the razor sharp edges of the diatom remains. When
diatomaceous earth comes in contact with the insects, the sharp edges
lacerate the bugs waxy exoskeleton and then the powdery diatomaceous
earth absorbs the body fluids causing death from dehydration.

Food grade diatomaceous earth has been used for at least two decades as
a natural wormer for livestock. Some believe diatomaceous earth
scratches and dehydrates parasites. Some scientists believe that
diatomaceous earth is a de-ionizer or de-energizer of worms or
parasites. Regardless, people report definite control. To be most
effective, food grade diatomaceous earth must be fed long enough to
catch all newly hatching eggs or cycling of the worms through the lungs
and back to the stomach. A minimum of 60 days is suggested by many, 90
days is advised for lungworms.

Food grade diatomaceous earth works in a purely physical/mechanical
manner, not 'chemical' and thus has no chemical toxicity. Best yet,
parasites don't build up a tolerance/immunity to its chemical reaction,
so rotation of wormers unnecessary.

*CLINICAL OBSERVATIONS OF FEEDING CODEX FOOD GRADE DIATOMACEOUS EARTH TO
DOGS, O.C. Collins, DVM, Midland Animal Clinic And Hospital, Midland,
TX:"In clinical observations of feeding dogs over 35 lbs. 1 tbsp./day
and under 35 lbs. 1 tsp./day of DE, within seven days all ova
disappeared from stools. DE controlled Ascardis (Toxacara canids),
Hookworms (Anclyostoma caninum), and Whipworms (Trichuris vulipis)."

*RESULTS ON FEEDING CODEX FOOD GRADE DIATOMACEOUS EARTH TO WALKING
HORSE, L. Thomas, Trainer, L. Frank Roper Stables, Winter Garden, FL:
"With horses fed approximately 5 oz. of DE mixed in the feed twice
daily, the following results were observed: Stopped scours even on
horses that had not responded to any other medications. Noticeable fly
reduction. Horses showed an increase in appetites. Weight gain due to
better feed conversion. Reduction in manure odor. Elimination of any
internal parasites. Healthier appearance.

Daily recommended food grade diatomaceous earth feeding rates:

Kittens - 1/2 teaspoon
Cats - 1 teaspoon
Puppies - 1/2 to 1 tsp.
Dogs under 35 lbs. - 1 teaspoon
Dogs over 35 lbs. - 1 tablespoon
Dogs over 100 lbs. - 2 tablespoons
Cattle, Dairy Cows, & Hogs - 2% of dry feed ration
Chickens - 5% in feed
Goats & Sheep - 2% in grain
Horses - 1/2 to 1 cup in daily ration
*Humans - 1 heaping tablespoon daily

Internal feeding of food grade diatomaceous earth helps eliminate most
internal worms, though possibly not all. It's also excellent when fed
daily to keep down fly loads, since food grade diatomaceous earth is
eliminated from the body, exactly the way it went in, it helps reduce
the manure odor and kills flies that come in contact with it.

Mix in animal feed or grain and/or feed free choice. Our goats, fowl,
and dogs eat it free choice.

*Some recommend to dose humans by mixing food grade diatomaceous earth
in a glass of water before bed or first thing in the morning, well
before breakfast, to allow diatomaceous earth time to move through and
absorb toxins from one's digestive tract without interfering or
absorbing nutrients from foods or liquids. Some report great results
consuming 1 tsp. in a glass of water prior to each meal, 3x/day.

If fecal counts are not zero for worms and ova after feeding DE for 30
days, increase the daily dose. Feeding too small a dose of DE will not
give desired results. Increasing the dose, even if greater than the
above recommendations, will not harm anyone. Some horses do fine on 1/2
cup of DE daily, others need a full cup. This reminds us, that all
beings are different. So again, if the worm and ova counts are not zero,
increase your daily dose.

EXTERNAL APPLICATIONS FOR DOGS & CATS: Lightly rub food grade
diatomaceous earth into pets coat, fur, and bedding to dehydrate fleas,
lice, mites, and ticks. Dust them lightly, but thoroughly, as in order
to kill the parasites, they must come in contact with the DE. Note,
external application can take up to 72 hours to dehydrate external
parasites.

Lightly sprinkle in household carpet. Leave for 2-3+ days, then vacuum.
Please do not get heavy handed with the DE in your carpet, as I have
heard from some people advising it causes problems with their vacuum.

PLEASE NOTE: Many people advise using ONLY food grade diatomaceous earth
eliminates a flea problem, but we cannot say that it does this for
everyone. If you are dealing with a flea infestation, we usually
recommend food grade DE in the household carpet, pet bedding, on the
pets, and outside in the dry areas where fleas congregate. But in the
moist areas, such as lawns, gardens, etc., we have always recommended
using beneficial/parasitic nematodes. These microscopic nematodes
parasitize flea larvae. DE, as far as we know, only kills the adult
fleas that come in contact with it. So DE possibly does not kill flea
larvae.

It is said that only 5 to 15% of a flea infestation are the adult fleas
that you see. The remaining 85 to 95% of your infestation are the larvae
waiting to hatch!! As such, and although we have many customers who
advise using only food grade diatomaceous earth worked to eliminate
their flea problem, we still recommend using the food grade DE in
conjunction with beneficial nematodes in outdoor moist areas.

EXTERNAL APPLICATIONS FOR LIVESTOCK, BARNS, COOPS, KENNELS, LITTER
BOXES: We use DE throughout the barn, fowl coops, and pastures. When
mucking the barn and coops, I lightly, but thoroughly sprinkle
diatomaceous earth absolutely everywhere! It keeps the kidding barn
"cleansed" and dry. In between barn mucking, I sprinkle diatomaceous
earth on wet spots to help dry them out and keep flies from laying eggs.

Food grade diatomaceous earth is excellent in the fowl coops -- on the
ground, in nesting/dusting boxes to prevent lice and mites. Sprinkle
directly on fowl feathers to eliminate mites and lice. One application
of diatomaceous earth has their feathers growing back quickly.

Food grade diatomaceous earth applied to manure piles keeps fly loads
down/eliminated.

Dairy cow owners put food grade diatomaceous earth in burlap bags, so
cows can rub against it and sprinkle themselves with DE, which helps to
eliminate flies, that land on them, as well as lice and mites.

Apply to moist kennel areas to reduce odors, dry the area, and prevent
pest breeding.

Deodorizing and absorption are natural functions of diatomaceous earth,
so add to kitty litter to absorb odors and keep the litter box drier.

A small amount of food grade DE applied to livestock waterers keeps
algae from growing on hot summer days.

Food grade diatomaceous earth is great for compost piles, to prevent
breeding pests and control odors.

YARD, GARDEN, & LANDSCAPE APPLICATIONS: DE's minerals are great for the
yard and gardens.

Apply DE to ant hills. Small ants may require a few applications to
completely eliminate them, as they burrow new hills elsewhere, when we
plug their initial hill with DE, but if we keep at it, eventually they
disappear. Big ants are eliminated within two applications of a
reasonable amount of DE applied to their ant hill. Ants in trash cans
can be controlled by either painting DE around the bottom of the trash
can or sprinkling it dry around it. They'll go elsewhere, as they do not
like walking over DE, so you'll need to find their home to completely
eliminate them, but it will keep them away from areas you put DE.
Sprinkled around the house foundation keeps new crawling insects from
coming inside.

We mix food grade diatomaceous earth with water to paint our fruit tree
trunks with it, like a white wash. The DE keeps ants OFF our fruit
trees. 1 cup applied to ½ gallon of water works well. Good as a white
wash for wood fencing too.

1 to 2 cups per gallon of water can be used to apply diatomaceous earth
in a backpack or hose end sprayer for problem infestations of mites,
aphids, fungus problems, etc. Food grade diatomaceous earth will turn
whatever you paint or spray with it white -- so it may look like a
"white" winter at your place.

OUTDOOR BUGS AFFECTED BY DIATOMACEOUS EARTH: Ants, fire ants,
caterpillars, cut worms, army worms, fleas, ticks, cockroaches, snails,
spiders, termites, scorpions, silver fish, lice, mites, flies,
centipedes, earwigs, slugs, aphids, Japanese beetles (grub stage), fruit
flies, corn earworm, cucumber beetles, corn borer, sting bugs, squash
vine borers, thrips, loopers, etc., etc.

MINERALIZATION: Natural food grade diatomaceous earth contains 15 trace
minerals: calcium, magnesium, sodium, potassium, copper, zinc iron,
phosphorous, selenium, etc. People note shinier coats, better overall
health, better production, etc. in their animals who are fed food grade
diatomaceous earth regularly.

FLY CONTROL: Used regularly, DE has pretty much eliminated our fly
population here. Sprinkle DE on livestock when flies are present. Dust
barns, coops, after mucking and throw on top of manure/compost piles. We
feed it daily to all dogs, cats, fowl, and livestock, so it comes out in
the manure of each animal as well and prevents flies from growing in the
manures. DE is our only fly preventative. We no longer use or need fly
bags, fly predators/parasites, fly tapes, or sprays.

Farmers keep hanging burlap bags full of diatomaceous earth for the
cattle to rub against and keep themselves dusted, which eliminates flies
that land on them.

Diatomaceous earth can be put in a backpack sprayer mixed with water to
spray your barn or coop buildings. Reapply DE when rain or water washes
or wind blows it away.

GRAIN STORAGE & PROTECTION: Codex food grade diatomaceous earth is a
healthy non-toxic alternative to chemical contamination of stored grain.
When the grain is to be used, food grade diatomaceous earth can be
easily removed, but need not be. Since it is "food grade", makes no
difference in taste or cooking quality, and adds 15 trace minerals.
Suggested grain storage use: 1 cup of DE will protect 50 #'s of grain --
5 cups of food grade diatomaceous earth will protect 300 #'s of grain --
7 lbs. of DE will protect 1500 #'s of grain or seeds. One source advises
only 1 to 2 #'s of DE per ton of grain.

A study done by ACRES, USA, Inc. advised that after 12 months of
storage, the food grade diatomaceous earth treated material had 15
insects, compared to 4884 for malathion and 16,994 for untreated grain.

MORE DIATOMACEOUS EARTH BENEFITS: Food grade diatomaceous earth has been
reported in scientific literature to absorb methyl mercury, e-coli,
endotoxins, viruses (including poliovirus), organophosphate pesticide
residues, drug resides, and protein, perhaps even the proteinaceous
toxins produced by some intestinal infections. Food grade diatomaceous
earth detoxes.

There are some features about food grade diatomaceous earth that
correspond with its ability as both a digestive aid and a colon
cleanser. The honeycomb skeletal form of diatomaceous earth is found,
under microscopic evaluation to reveal a tendency to become filled and
clogged with hard debris such as intestinal scale. Food grade
diatomaceous earth has not been found to cause any insult to the mucousa
or barrier wall.

Diatomaceous earth has a negative charge and bacteria has a positive
charge, wherein it is believed by some that food grade diatomaceous
earth sweeps bacteria out of the body by trapping it in it's honeycomb
shaped skeletal form.

There is no withdrawal period when given to milking or feed animals. No
toxins. Decreased mortality, increased milk production, decreased
mastitis, better feed conversion.

CAUTIONS:

· DE manufacturers who work in diatomaceous earth mines 5 days/week
advise inhaling it is not a problem (tho of course, don't be snuffing
it) and we have not had problems when inhaling DE in small amounts. IF
you have asthma or some other lung ailment, either wear a mask or be
very careful when using food grade diatomaceous earth.

· Do NOT get diatomaceous earth in the eyes. DE is drying to the eyes,
so do NOT put it out when you or your pets are down wind of it. DE is
drying to your skin, hands, and feet, just as it can be to your pets.

· Do NOT give to very small pregnant animals such as cats, guinea pigs,
etc. and do NOT feed continually to babies or small animals such as
cats, hamsters, etc. DE can be fed on a continuous basis to larger
animals and livestock for continuous parasite control and mineralization.

· Do NOT use heavily in carpet. Some advise too much DE causes vacuum
problems.

· NEVER use pool filter grade DE around animals. It can poison or kill them.

· Some people experience a healing crisis (detox reaction) when
beginning DE consumption. If this occurs, reduce the dose, till your
body is cleansed, and then increase to the RDA.

· Remember, DE will kill beneficial insects as well, so use accordingly.


FOOD GRADE DIATOMACEOUS EARTH BENEFITS SUMMARY:

· Natural wormer -- eliminates many parasites without chemicals
· Safe, non-toxic, parasites don't build immunity as they do with
traditional wormers
· 15 trace minerals -- great for animals, humans, plants, and soil
· No feed withdrawal for milk or feed animals
· Decreased mastitis
· Reduced scours
· Decreased mortality
· Better feed conversion
· Helps detox heavy metals, ecoli, bacteria, viruses, etc.
· Promotes shinier coats
· Digestive aid
· Colon cleanser
· Better production
· Better overall health
· Eliminates pests in stored grains
· Reduces flies, fleas, ticks, etc.
· Reduces manure odor
· Drying agent
· Reduces moisture and pests in barns, coops, kennel, litterboxes,
compost piles, and other moist areas
· Antifungal properties -- good for garden fungal growth
· Reduces overall animal stress
· Cost effective
· DE health benefits mean reduction in vet bills and dis-ease


I have an article that goes into the stages of heartworms and how EVERYTHING has to be in just right for a dog to get infected with them. I havent found it yet, but I will and I will post it when I do. Heartworm is another thing that the vets and chemical companies love to scare dog owners with. At the vets office you see this awful picture of a heart all infested with heartworms and then they make you think that if you dont test for heartworm and then treat for heartworms, that your dog is bound to die of a horrible death. Then, they have a map up showing all the cases of heartworm in the state. What more could they do to scare you into treating your dog??

I dont condemn people who use poisons and I have done it many times. Its just that as you learn that there are better ways to treat our dogs, then I think that we should at least try them. Every time I think about pouring ivermectin on a dogs back, I think about what it would be like to pour it on my own skin. Its the same thing. Chemicals are no better for our dogs, than ourselves. I realize that sometimes they are necessary, but not nearly as much as we have been led to believe.

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 Post subject: Re: chemicals
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:13 am 
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Mrs. Betty thanks for posting all the DE info. :) DE is a good simple & safe means of protecting your dogs from a multitude of things and since it is harmless, using it every day won't hurt a thing.


Many years ago the kiddos and I had a Border Collie that came down with heart worms.
It was awful the amount of pain our beloved family member was in. During his treatment he was so ill he had to be helped to stand up to go potty. It was heart breaking to say the least. I worked for a vet at that time so I had become all to familiar with the scare tactics. For the most part when it comes to heart worms they scare you that way with good reason...whether your dog survives heart worms or dies due to them it is agonizing.

Now Savannah is turning 14 and has not ever been given preventative meds for anything, Mike gets upset if you even act like you're going to worm her ! She hasn't been sick a day in her life ! For those of you who know her you know she is fat! & healthy! The only thing she has ever gotten from a vet is a rabies shot & thats only because a round our neck of the woods it it necessary.

Both dogs are working breeds, both worked, both well taken care of, so what would cause one and not the other to contract heart worms? :?:

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 Post subject: Re: chemicals
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:58 am 
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Quote:
Now Savannah is turning 14 and has not ever been given preventative meds for anything, Mike gets upset if you even act like you're going to worm her ! She hasn't been sick a day in her life ! For those of you who know her you know she is fat! & healthy! The only thing she has ever gotten from a vet is a rabies shot & thats only because a round our neck of the woods it it necessary.


That's great to hear! Not only do I want to increase my dogs' longevity, I want their senior years to be healthy, fullfilling and active. I hope I'm doing the right combination of things to acheive the results I want for them.

I think the answer to your question is one dog was bitten by a vector (a mosquito carrying heartworm larvae) and the other dog wasn't. Not all mosquitos carry heartworm larvae.

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 Post subject: Re: chemicals
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:04 pm 
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Could be...

That brings me to another question though ;
Are short haired dogs more susceptible to vector bites than a long haired breed?
It's really just a curious question

~Mis

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 Post subject: Re: chemicals
 Post Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:16 pm 
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Great post Betty! That was exactly the sort of information I was wanting, and it has motivated me try DE. Just as Courtney said, I'm very concerned about keeping Sadie healthy and happy well into her senior years.

It sounds like for fleas I just sprinkle it on if I start to see them. But what about the worming? Like I said before, I was traumatized by the worms when I brought Sadie home. I had this new puppy on my bed, rolling around with her, and noticed the fleas. Ugh, I was annoyed, but I knew how to take care of it. Then I noticed a little white spot on the bed. Then another. I start looking Sadie over and see a white speck crawling out her rear end! DISGUSTING! I didn't want to get all that gross stuff in my bed, so I slept in the bathroom with her the first night. I seriously considered returning her, but instead I just spent a ton of money at the vet the next day killing off her infestations. I'm not so squeamish now, but moral of the story, I don't want anything to do with worms.

Given my great aversion, how often should I use DE to prevent them? Does she really need a teaspoon a day on her food? That seems like a lot, but when I did some more research that is the only recommended dosage. I've never actually seen it, is it something I can I rub it into her food before freezing it, or do I need to put it on fresh everyday? I found this link for DE treats, http://www.earthworkshealth.com/detail.php?id=5, but at $10 for a 30 day supply that seems like it would be much more expensive and I'm not sure if the dosing is right.

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