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 Post subject: Arthritis tips?
 Post Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:55 pm 
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Does anyone have any experience with arthritis in their dogs?

Even though she just turned two, Sadie is showing signs of early onset arthritis. Over the summer I noticed the her right front ankle joint was swollen after some of our hunts. I assumed it was irritated cactus, but then I noticed her limping occasionally. That only occurred after really long hunts, like 20+ miles on the ground, so I thought it was just muscle soreness. But a few weeks ago when a storm was rolling in she woke up in the morning all stiff and limping again. Given all those symptoms, it sounds like she is developing arthritis in that joint.

Any suggestions on things I can do to pro-actively address the issue? Since it is only the extra long runs that make it act up, I'll probably make an effort to let her take more breaks in the truck, but to keep her sane I can't put too many limits on her activity. Has anyone tried supplements like glucosamine? Maybe something to add to her raw diet? I don't think she is at the stage that she needs acupuncture, but I know there is a great vet in Austin who does that.

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 Post subject: Re: Arthritis tips?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 2:03 pm 
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Dang it, I had a good post going and then I answered the phone and didnt pay any attention to what I was doing and I LOST my post!!! So, here I go again.

A dog who is only 2 yrs old and raw fed should not have arthritis. So, the question becomes, what is causing her to develop it? And, I'm sure that you all know what I'm going to say, but here goes anyway. Vaccines are given to humans and animals to supposedly help the immune system, but in reality, they destroy the immune system. Arthritis (rheumatoid) is an auto-immune disease, which means that the immune system has gone hay-wire and is attacking itself. Osteoarthritis is an aging disease. Sadie certainly doesnt qualify for that! Below is an quote from a website by Dr. Jean Dodds, who is a leading authority on vaccinosis. The website that I have posted is where the quote came from.

http://www.animalwellnessmagazine.com/m/m86/main.htm

"Dr. Jean Dodds. "We have a lot of bad reactions, including fatal
ones. They usually occur within two to three weeks after vaccination,
although they can appear up to 45 days later. Because the rabies
vaccine is a neurogenic protein, meaning it affects the nervous
system, what you will often see is seizures or seizure-like disorders
like stumbling, ataxia, dementia, and some demyelination, where the
animals become wobbly and don't have proper motor skills. You can also
have an autoimmune-like destruction of tissues, skin, blood, joints,
the liver or kidneys." Dr. Dodds adds that animals already ill with
immune-related diseases such as cancer can be even more negatively
affected. "Often, this is the last thing that causes the animal's
demise." "

Here is another good website: http://www.drugs.com/sfx/rabies-vaccine ... fects.html

Now, as far as the supplements that you asked about. Glucosamine is used because it helps proper joint function and joint repair. Glucosamine sulfate should be used because the sulfur takes part in forming cartilage. Chondroitin sulfate helps because it is an anti-inflammatory. MSM helps because it increases circulation, boosts immune functions and interfers with the pain messages to the brain. Another product that can help is synovial fluid which lubricates the joints and strengthens the ligaments. Please avoid the COX 2 meds that vets prescribe as they can cause stomach bleeding, among other things. A buffered aspirin can be used to relieve work induced pain, but it should be given with a little food to protect the stomach. I wouldnt use aspirin too much because it can cause ulcers in the stomach and believe me, I can tell you about that kind of damage!! (Never give a dog ibuprophen.) I have given all of the above supplements to my dogs over the years. I gave them to Bridgette and could not tell that they helped a whole lot, but she was vaccinated out the kazoo, fed kibble and she was old. And, in the end, she was over weight, which is best avoided when there is joint damage. You can get supplements from your vet and pay an arm and a leg for them, or you can get them on-line, or at a health food store. The human variety is way cheaper than one made and advertised for dogs.

I would again encourage you to seek the help of a homeopathic vet for vaccine damage. Dr. Will Falconer, http://www.alt4animals.com/about.htm Betsy Harrison http://www.docbetsy.com/ or Dr. Don Hamilton are names that have been given me by the woman who is leading the attack on stopping vaccines for sick and old dogs in Texas, Pamela Pickard. Dr. Falconer is in Austin, but is out of the office until Nov. 18, I believe. He also does acupuncture. Betsy Harrison is in Wimberly and Don Hamilton is in New Mexico. However, to treat with homeopathy, you can do it over the net or over the phone. Dr. Falconer and Betsy Harrison have good websites that you can go to.
The acupuncture could surely help, but I think (and this is only an opinion) that it will only be a fix, not a cure. I know a lot of people who have been helped by acupuncture. And have certainly used it myself.

Good luck
Betty

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 Post subject: Re: Arthritis tips?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 5:51 pm 
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Yet another reason to put off Sadie's booster... I'm going to get in touch with those homeopathic vets and see which one would be the right fit. I want to address both behavioral and physical issues and I definitely think a homeopathic approach is best.

My main concern with the arthritis is early prevention. Right now it isn't chronic, it only pops up when we have an intense hunt or the weather changes, and it isn't too severe, she will still jump up or down from things, but she definitely favors that foot. Arthritis can be devastating for active dogs, and Sadie needs to be able to work for years to come, so any preventative steps are worth it.

I think starting gluccosamine is the best place to start. I know Omega 3 is supposed to help with joints as well. Betty, do you know of any good additions to her diet for that? I know shark and salmon would be great, but I can't imagine the stench of feeding that raw!

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 Post subject: Re: Arthritis tips?
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:34 pm 
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Glucosamine is a good place to start. I hope that it helps her and it should.

I meant to tell you to add EFAs but forgot. Sorry. You definitely want to go with capsules as the canned stuff is pretty stinky!! Bluebonnet brand is a good one and you should be able to get it at better health food stores. I know that you can get it at Whole Foods. I would avoid Nordic Naturals even tho they are really good, but they are really strong. I give Larry Rexall brand because its cheap and has only fish oils. It has anchovies and sardines, but thats ok. Just not the best. I cant remember why, but cod liver oil is not good and you should always avoid soy and any other plant based EFA's as they wont be processed by the dog. Omega 3's enhance the lymph function for immune response, so be sure that the supplement that you use is high in omega 3's. You might also notice a change in Sadies personality as the omega 3's also can stabilize moods. Maybe it will calm her down a little. It sure helps with kids that have ADHD. You might notice an improvement in her coat and skin also. I know one time that you said that her coat wasnt as shiny as it had been. I have been told to give Larry 2 capsules by the vet, and was told that I could give him as much as 4 capsules, but no one told me how many mg's the capsules should contain. So, I give Larry two capsules a day at 1200mgs per capsule. Donnys dogs eat the capsules right from the hand, but my dipsticks have to have them wrapped in some meat, or they will chew them a little, spit them out on the carpet and I have an oily, very stinky, spot on the carpet.

EFA's are a supplement that some who raw feed say are necessary and some say not. I give them to Larry because he itches a lot and they help. I give the other two fish oils when I have been negligent in feeding liver.

Shark cartilage is supposed to be good for arthritis, but I have never dealt with it for anything.

Betty

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 Post subject: Re: Arthritis tips?
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:46 am 
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Mrs. Betty
Would Capsacin(spelling?) work for dogs like it does for people with arthritis? It works directly on inflammation. Along with a chamomile tincture wrap. Of course the dogs would probably want to lick or eat the wrap..
I was trying to figure out how much of the education I have in herbs, essential oils and touch therapy could be applied to our canine co-workers. I`ve used massage on both the dogs as well as horses but not ever with the aid of essential oils or tinctures ...not sure what the contraindications for canines are. Guess I should go research that huh? lol

~Mis

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 Post subject: Re: Arthritis tips?
 Post Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 12:35 pm 
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If you guys know of any topical solutions, please let me know! Because it is so infrequent, only when the pressure changes dramatically or she has gone on a big hunt, I don't want to start a serious regime of pills just yet. Of course I'm keeping an eye on it, if it seems to progress at all I'll start supplements, but it would be nice to have some topical measures in the meantime.

Betty, I just saw another article about rabies shots possibly triggering arthritis on another dog forum X( It makes me so angry that Sadie might have a serious health condition that could have been prevented!

_________________
"You must be a very small minority no matter who you hang around with. Maybe you should start a magazine, Vegetarian Hog Dogging Monthly, find some like-minded individuals."
- Inspiration for my next project from TBH

True Blue Lacys: http://www.truebluelacys.com
More Lacy Pics: http://www.flickr.com/photos/julieanna/sets/72157605027566732/


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 Post subject: Re: Arthritis tips?
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:56 pm 
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Julie,

Below is info on using Arnica for arthritis. I didnt know if it would work for arthritis pain, but evidently, it will. You can get Arnica in a cream called ArniaFlora by Boericke and Tafel. I would suspect that Whole Foods or Central Market would have it, or something similar to it.

Arnica (Arnica montana) - For External Use only. (unbroken skin) swelling, pain and bruising, helps with neuromuscular tones as in arthritis. Also known as mountain tobacco, arnica is a well known herbal and homeopathic remedy. It has anti-inflammatory and pain-killing properties when used externally. Uses - Arnica is used to treat bruises, sprains and swellings.
Cautions: Arnica should not be used internally, unless the medicine is in a commercially prepared form. It should not be used on open wounds

Mis,

I would suspect that capsicum would work also. It is safe to use on dogs and is an anti-inflammatory. I dont know about using it as a cream because of its ability to irritate the skin by warming it. It would warrant looking into, I suspect.

Have you ever looked into the Tellington Touch? There is an amazing amount of info out there to learn using better stuff than medicines. I would love to learn about all of it!!!

Betty

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"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did
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"You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something in your life!"
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 Post subject: Re: Arthritis tips?
 Post Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 6:21 pm 
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Mrs. Betty

I`m contemplating a career change after the new Year. Well not exactly a change, I`ll still be an R.M.T., however I`m wanting to direct that towards Equine & canine studies. I have worked on horses but there is a school in W.Virginia I want to go to for their course on Equine Massage. There are no schools for canine massage however one of my former professors does homeopathic/ osteopathic work primarily with canines... she taught me a great deal. Now I want to delve more into the herbs,tinctures, and such to use with the touch therapy. Essential oils and topical herbs were a huge part of my studies, particularly in deep tissue, but that was for people..now I need to learn how and what can be applied to dogs & horses.
capsicum can be taken orally by people (capsules) I wonder if dogs can? It's a compound from jalapeƱos, a couple of our dogs will eat peppers...but I`m thinking a capsule infused with gelatin would be easier.

~Mis

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 Post subject: Re: Arthritis tips?
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:00 pm 
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I had always hoped that I would be able to go to Clayton School of Natural Medicine, http://www.ccnh.edu/ They have an online school, but I guess that its not going to happen. I would love to have some education in some kind of alternative medicine, whether it be homeopathy, herbs or the like. Being able to treat animals would absolutely be the best. Maybe someday when my ship comes in!!!

Betty

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"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did
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"You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something in your life!"
Winston Churchill

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 Post subject: Re: Arthritis tips?
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:15 pm 
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Capsicum is ok for dogs to take internally. I just dont know how much. I used a lot of cayenne pepper and jalapeno juice to try to get my Irish setter to quit eating off the insulation of the water pipes in her pen, but it didnt phase her!! She just kept right on chewing!! And it was like 16 degrees outside that night that I was trying to wrap the pipes. I wasnt happy with her!!

Maybe I should look for a book on herbs for dogs. I have a homeopathic book, but its not the greatest. There is just so much out there that I would like to learn. I also would like to get into Australian Bush Flowers. Its supposed to be faster than and not so exacting as homeopathy.

I got some remedies for Larry from the Australian place that I posted earlier. I am treating him for vaccine damage that is showing up as itchy, dry, flaky skin. He also gets pustules on his abdomen. Hopefully, this will help him. I can only imagine what he would be like if he wasnt raw fed!! I cant feed him chicken. It drives him bonkers with itching. I dont know if it is the chicken, or the additives that they put in cheap chicken, but he just cant eat it. Every once in a while he steals some of Abes chicken and I can always tell that he has eaten chicken by how he scratches. It took weeks of him not eating chicken for him not to scratch all the time. I also give him 2400 mg of salmon oil daily. So, hopefully he will be better after the homeopathy treatment. We'll see.

Betty

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"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did
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"You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something in your life!"
Winston Churchill

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 Post subject: Re: Arthritis tips?
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:11 pm 
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Mrs. Betty
Try a teaspoon of extra virgin olive oil a day with him, see if that helps with the itchies
It worked for Ox when he was a pup.

~Mis

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 Post subject: Re: Arthritis tips?
 Post Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:34 pm 
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Wonder if some of that could be genetic? Ever have her hips checked? As for my male, it's because he got hit by a car and his front leg broke completely in 4 places and thereafter, he's had arthritis in that leg. Hurts when it's cold or about to rain or after lots of exercise. He gets grouchy then.


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 Post subject: Re: Arthritis tips?
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:11 pm 
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I wont say that arthritis couldnt be genetic, but more likely, it is a genetic tendency to get it. The thing that you have to understand about any disease is first where the word came from. I think that it came from the Greek language, but am not positive about that. The word disease came for two words, dis and ease. This basically means that the body is not at ease, that there is something that is causing it to be that way.

If the arthritis was caused by genes, its not because the dog carries the gene to have arthritis, but because the gene is there so the dog has a genetic tendency to get the disease. There has to be something there to cause the arthritic gene to show itself. That is where the vaccines come in. Vaccines do not support the immune system, they destroy it. If there is a genetic tendency to get arthritis and the dogs immune system is weak in that area, then it might be called genetic. But it is actually the immune system not working that is causing the disease to manifest itself. There is proof that vaccines do genetic damage.

A dog that has vaccine damage will manifest that damage in many ways. If the dog has a tendency towards dry skin, allergies and the like, then the damage will show up in problems with itchy, dry or damaged skin. Just as Larry is. In cases where a dog has been abused, the vaccine damage will show up and be a part of the problems that the dog has from being abused. In Sadies case, since Sadie comes from a line that has aggression tendencies, the vaccine damage may be showing up in her aggression problems and making that tendency or the genetic trait to express itself. We dont know if Sadies parents had or have arhtritis, but for what ever reason, she has the tendency to express the damage in her joints. Since the rabies vaccine is one of the worst and there is positive proof that one of the adjuvants in the rabies vaccine can cause arthritis, then I am betting on the vaccine being the cause of the disease.

Betty

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"You did then what you knew how to do, and when you knew better, you did
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"You have enemies? Good, that means you stood up for something in your life!"
Winston Churchill

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bjleek/


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