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 Post subject: Stud dog management
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 6:24 pm 
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I am not going to get into this too much but in line breeding you have to look at dominate and recessive genes in the dogs you are breeding . Then you need to under stand genotype traits and what they do and then you need to understand phenotype traits. Then you need to know if said dogs are homozygous or heterozygous There is so much to look at and under stand and not easily hashed out on line. The biggest problem is records on all the dogs and knowing what they are or were . With lacys no one that I know of has kept up with there lines to know that information . Line breeding is a way of cleaning up your lines to determine what good and bad genes may be hidden in your lines. This is not done in one breeding but over several with the off spring that produced good traits you want . As Jerry said once you have cleaned up you lines you have more option when out crossing because you now know and understand your lines . Not sure if this helps Betty .

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 Post subject: Re: Stud dog management
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 7:55 pm 
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What I am really wanting in wanting to know what one considers line breeding is how many generations showing on a pedigree constitutes line breeding?

Betty

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 Post subject: Re: Stud dog management
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:09 pm 
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I have to see charts to understand pedigrees and genetics. Maybe this will help some.

The first is an example of tight line breeding. you might find the same 3, 4 or more dogs showing up numerous times in a 5 generation pedigree.

Attachment:
inbreeddi3.gif
inbreeddi3.gif [ 10.54 KiB | Viewed 1960 times ]


This an example of loose line breeding, which would result in more variations of physical characteristics than would tight line-breeding. Fred is Beaver's grandparent on his mom's side and great grandparent on his dad's side.

Attachment:
inbreeddi4.gif
inbreeddi4.gif [ 6.45 KiB | Viewed 1961 times ]


According to geneticists. Line-breeding can be carried on for many many generations without deleterious effects on the line or breed as long as the individuals involved have few hidden genetic disorders.

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 Post subject: Re: Stud dog management
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 8:22 pm 
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ineteresting


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 Post subject: Re: Stud dog management
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:27 am 
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do make lite of banjo playing.....my hound plays one everyday, shes not very good but playing...lol

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 Post subject: Re: Stud dog management
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:34 pm 
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Location: I've been everwhere, man....
For the new members as well as the members who aren't following what is going on under the surface here..... :)

1. The other organization doesn't allow dual registry -- if you register your dog with the NLDA, your LGDR registration gets pulled.
2. The owner of the other registry will pull your registration if you breed your registered dog with an NLDA dog. Obviously, this means the pups can't be registered with LGDR. The irony here is that if you own three dogs registered with the LGDR and register even one with the NLDA, the second and third dog lose their LGDR registration as well. If you then breed the former LGDR dogs (the second and third dogs), the pups can't be registered with LGDR. One the other hand, any old pup that pops out from two LDGR registered dogs are accepted for registration, even if they don't meet breed standards. :-o
3. The other organization doesn't believe in linebreeding, but line breeds all the same.
4. The genetic population of lacy dogs is very small.
5. There are significantly more pet lacy dogs out there than working lacy dogs.

The breed as a whole needs more good breeders.
There are people out there looking for working lacy dogs. Many times, those people end up buying a lacy from one of the mills.

Limiting the amount of dogs in the pool is bad for the breed.

Sorry if this is slightly off topic, but the underlying issue needs to be known.

Oh, and if anyone is wondering if this is applied equally, then the answer is no.
There are several notable exceptions.

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 Post subject: Re: Stud dog management
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:45 pm 
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:D :-BD

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 Post subject: Re: Stud dog management
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:48 pm 
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I have a question... if LGDR doesn' t recognize NLDA dags does NLDA recognize LGDR as long as they meet breed standard? :-?


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 Post subject: Re: Stud dog management
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:07 pm 
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my understanding is yes....as long as they meet standards but correct me if I'm out of line.

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 Post subject: Re: Stud dog management
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:25 pm 
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trapperchick87 wrote:
I have a question... if LGDR doesn' t recognize NLDA dags does NLDA recognize LGDR as long as they meet breed standard? :-?


YES!

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 Post subject: Re: Stud dog management
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:27 pm 
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Rod,

In all honesty I was not aware of the issues you posted. I was aware that there were minor issues, but was not aware that they were to this extent. Even though I only own 1 neutered Lacy dog that will not meet NLDA standards... ;) I keep up with this organization because I believe in what the overall goal it.... that was the reason I was asking what Camos goal was with his line of dogs...

Jerryg


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 Post subject: Re: Stud dog management
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:10 am 
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another example of line breeding..the dog they were trying to reproduce was "Nolan's Last bullet" basically they bred his daughter to her uncle (his brother)...that's about as "close" as you can get then you HAVE to outcross!!!


Attachments:
kealy ped.jpg
kealy ped.jpg [ 203.69 KiB | Viewed 1800 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Stud dog management
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 4:20 pm 
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Please don't forget about hereitability in all this...if you are breeding for a certain trait your progress is greatly dependent on how heritable that trait is...

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 Post subject: Re: Stud dog management
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:52 pm 
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yes but lets not confuse people by using such words a heritability and such, Let
me break it down for those who havent been to a genetics class. traits are very dependent on heritability
but you have to take in to account how heritable it it, color is very heritable while mothering and milk
production are not. But a working trait is very heritable so once again breed the best to the best! If you
start introducing too many closely related breedings then some freaky stuff starts to happen like unusual
color and coat patterns, look at the German Shepard that is a classic example of inbreeding with hip and eye probs. Im not saying
not to line breed mearly the opposite, you just need to be care full like swimming in Losiana if not the
alligators are going to bite you in the ass! You also need to consider gene dominance this basically means
a certain gene out shows another for example the punnet square BB=black Bb=black bb=red dad is BB and mom is
bb so all the progeny is black right so if we throw in a heterozygous(two of a kind) pair out of the homozygous (both the same)
parents different thins start to happen like a red thus a recessive trait has just been established into the gene pool of
predominantly black
B B
b Bb Bb
b Bb Bb

B b
B Bb Bb
b Bb bb

I hope this helps a little with those who are having a hard time understanding from a genetics standpoint


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 Post subject: Re: Stud dog management
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:44 am 
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Atfulldraw wrote:
For the new members as well as the members who aren't following what is going on under the surface here..... :)

1. The other organization doesn't allow dual registry -- if you register your dog with the NLDA, your LGDR registration gets pulled.
2. The owner of the other registry will pull your registration if you breed your registered dog with an NLDA dog. Obviously, this means the pups can't be registered with LGDR. The irony here is that if you own three dogs registered with the LGDR and register even one with the NLDA, the second and third dog lose their LGDR registration as well. If you then breed the former LGDR dogs (the second and third dogs), the pups can't be registered with LGDR. One the other hand, any old pup that pops out from two LDGR registered dogs are accepted for registration, even if they don't meet breed standards. :-o
3. The other organization doesn't believe in linebreeding, but line breeds all the same.
4. The genetic population of lacy dogs is very small.
5. There are significantly more pet lacy dogs out there than working lacy dogs.

The breed as a whole needs more good breeders.
There are people out there looking for working lacy dogs. Many times, those people end up buying a lacy from one of the mills.

Limiting the amount of dogs in the pool is bad for the breed.

Sorry if this is slightly off topic, but the underlying issue needs to be known.

Oh, and if anyone is wondering if this is applied equally, then the answer is no.
There are several notable exceptions.



:-\ /:) :-o ...... I only see one true Lacy registery listed....... :ymsmug: :ymapplause:


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