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 Post subject: Re: NLDA Breed Standard
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:38 pm 
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Greyhounds are known to have melanistic masks, and if they are truly in the Lacy dogs lineage, then it only seems logical that the lacy could have gotten it from there as opposed to one being crossed with a BMC at one point.

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 Post subject: Re: NLDA Breed Standard
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:27 pm 
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Ok I just read the color genetics thread.Am I safe to assume that the mask has been accepted as breed standard?

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 Post subject: Re: NLDA Breed Standard
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 6:52 pm 
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As long as its blue, and not black, then why is it considered a fault?

Blue is black- diluted. All lacys should be dilute. I have found a black lacy, but she is not registered.

Yes, I suspect that your Jagger has a mask. It could be that he is an agouti red, which will tend to have blue faces and it is difficult to tell for sure without testing. A partial mask, meaning that the dog would have one gene for a mask. It takes 2 genes, one from each parent, to make a full mask and it is usually pretty noticeable.

The difficulty with a mask is that many lacys carry at least one gene for a mask. If the dog is a blue lacy, the mask will never show because of the dilute gene causing all black on a dog to be blue. So, unless all blue dogs are tested, it may go unnoticed until the blue dog is crossed with a red or a tri. Once a blue dog with a mask is crossed with a red or tri, the mask is able to show up. Which answers the question as to the breed standard. It would be almost impossible at this point to keep the mask out of the lacy gene pool. All breeders would have to test their dogs and not many breeders have been willing to do that.

Yes, greyhounds have masks as do English Shepherds, so it is very logical that the lacy would have a mask, if these breeds are indeed in the gene pool. The reason that the mask has been so opposed to is that some people expect the lacy breed to be pure and to look as the did years ago. Other breeds have proven that the genes mutate and breeds invariably get different colors along the line. If the lacy breed is expected to stay as some want, it would also again mean testing or culling an pup that might be suspect. Again, breeders have not been open to this. So, we continue to produce pups that have features that are not quite what one would want.

The lacy has also been cross bred by many people over the years. The BMC gene is probably there, but if a dog has a 7 (I think) generation pedigree and it has come from a registered line, then it could very easily look like a BMC, but in actuality, be a full blooded lacy. It's a difficult world when you start looking at genetics and people will not accept that the science of genetics comes into play in ways that you dont want it to.

Courtney has put up the info for color genetics at http://www.nationallacydog.org/colorgenetics.html She did a good job on making it easy to understand and has pictures, so you can check it out. Also viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2645 has all the discussions that took place when I was introducing the color genetics. It gets pretty deep, but you can see the different aspects that were taken into account when the standards were going thru a change.

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 Post subject: Re: NLDA Breed Standard
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:42 pm 
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Ok I read the link, but I guess im not smart enough to figure out if the mask is accepted as breed quality.I truly apologize if this is a sore subject for some, Id just like a definite answer.

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 Post subject: Re: NLDA Breed Standard
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:12 pm 
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Yes, the mask is ok, even for breed quality. It is not a fault, just not as desirable as it would be if the dog didnt have one. Kinda a fine line, I guess. Some breeders would not want a dog with a mask and that's ok, if they feel that way. It's easy to breed away from. However, these dogs are not show dogs. They are working dogs and color has nothing to do with their working ability. A breeder simply needs to make the determination if the dogs working ability is more important to them or the color is. Myself, I would take a good working lacy to a pretty colored dog any day of the week.

Your questions are welcome and will always be answered as best that we can.

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 Post subject: Re: NLDA Breed Standard
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:16 pm 
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Before this year, the mask was a disqualifying fault. The membership overwhelmingly voted to accept a proposed Breed Standard amendment to accept the mask....though consensus of the group was that it should remain a fault...just not a disqualifying fault.

Many lacys have one or two copies of a mask. It is something that can be removed from the gene pool if that is a goal of the breeder.
If you have a dog with a mask, simply breed to a dog that does not have a mask. A dog only needs one copy of the mask to express it, so it's usually obvious whether he carries for it or not...but a color test should be done to confirm. You will get some puppies with a copy and some with no copy.

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 Post subject: Re: NLDA Breed Standard
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:56 pm 
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I was really sleepy last night when I made that last post. "A dog only needs one copy of the mask to express it, so it's usually obvious whether he carries for it or not...but a color test should be done to confirm."

Blue dogs can have a mask too and it is NOT obvious on blue dogs...which is one of the reasons why we voted to amend the standard.
The only way to know for sure if a blue dog has a mask is to do a color genetics test. I believe we have several blue dogs with masks in our registry.

Dogs with a single copy can produce offspring with or without a mask, while those with two copies will only produce masked offspring.

If you have a dog with two copies of the mask that you really want to breed, and you are concerned about breeding away from the mask, breed to a dog without a mask. Select the offspring that only inherited one copy and breed again to a dog without a copy (no mask.) Just select those offspring that didn't inherit a copy for future breeding (if you are concerned about that sort of thing.)

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